Just when you think politicians can't sink lower

[Bill Mattocks]

What I would like is an honest answer of everyone who thinks they are a conservative like Don and similar threds like his is what comes in your mind first thing when think of yourself as a conservative?

When I think of myself as a conservative, I think of these things, in no particular order:

1) Strong military.
2) Small government.
3) State's rights.
4) Support for the Constitution.
5) Resistance to social change.

As I get older, I find myself more open to the role of government in areas of social services and regulation; I begin to see that the smooth functioning of society has come to depend on some of those things, and I don't resent them anymore. I am less rugged individualist and more communitarian-minded. However, I still resist and resent government intrusion into religion and the existing social order. I fear socialism, especially bungled, badly-done socialism. I also find myself fearing those GOP members who call themselves conservatives, but (as someone here mentioned) would make Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater spin in their graves. I fear they are less conservative and more populist-leaning-towards-fascist. The Left, I fear, is more populist-leaning-towards-fascist. Yes, fascism can be Left or Right -- it's mostly a militant brand of populism with Nationalist overtones. The Right is no longer 'Conservative' and the Left is no longer classical Liberal. They are both a mish-mash of gimme-gimmes with no regard for anyone but themselves and their vision of how the world ought to not just operate, but be forced to operate.

I am against being forced. So screw the Democrats and screw the Republicans. They both stink on ice.

 

[punisher73]

Making your font size larger does NOT make your point, and makes people want to ignore anything you do have to say because it comes across as obnoxious.

 

[Master Dan]

Making your font size larger does NOT make your point, and makes people want to ignore anything you do have to say because it comes across as obnoxious.

YOU JUST MADE MY POINT BILL CAN ANSWER EACH POINT OR HE DOSN'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER :BSmeter:

 

[Sukerkin]

Calmly gentlemen, please. Good points remain good points and require neither all CAPS or larger fonts to make their message heard.

I think it is indicative of how muddled political thought has become when people can be so divided over things that make no difference and can also agree most strongly on key matters when they are purportedly from different political stances.

With due allowance for certain organisational matters, I agree with what BillM posted above ... yet he is an American Conservative and I am an English Liberal ...

 

[elder999]

When I think of myself as a conservative, I think of these things, in no particular order:

1) Strong military.
2) Small government.
3) State's rights.
4) Support for the Constitution.
5) Resistance to social change.

.

Ya done lost me with that last one. :lfao:

Appropriate to the definition it may be, but "resistance to social change" is not always a good thing. It was marching for "social change" that led to desegregation. It was "conservative" resistance to it that made it take so long. I can think of a few others, like women getting the vote, blacks getting the vote, blacks getting to serve your Marine corps, various changes in immigration policy, etc., etc., etc.........

Nah.

"Resistance to social change" is pointless-societies change.

 

[Sukerkin]

I took Bill to mean overly rapid and ill-considered fluctuation rather than no change at all, Elder. I am tired tho' .

 

[Bill Mattocks]

"Resistance to social change" is pointless-societies change.

Societies change. Without resistance, they change very very quickly, and that can be a bad thing to the existing society. Whilst I will grant you that some wrongs are so wrong they must be righted immediately, I don't see any of those today.

So I see my role as not opposing social change or stopping social change, but resisting it. I am a necessary part of the counterbalance for those who push for social change.

The Grand Canyon was not carved by movement; it was carved by movement and resistance. Movement won.

Social change must come; as you said, it never stops. But changing too quickly is detrimental to all. I therefore resist.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I took Bill to mean overly rapid and ill-considered fluctuation rather than no change at all, Elder. I am tired tho' .

That would be correct, and I do that [tup] thing in your direction. I meant precisely that.

 

[WC_lun]

I just don't see what the big deal is. It isn't like the administration is requiring anyone to do anything. They are saying here is another way to contribute if you want to do so. Don't like it, don't contribute. Pretty freaking easy, huh?

Unfortunately, I see this as how this race is gonna wind up. Anything and everything will be turned into an attack, common sense be damned. There are so many real issues that need to be discussed in this election and THIS is something that even shows up on the radar?! Crazy.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I just don't see what the big deal is. It isn't like the administration is requiring anyone to do anything. They are saying here is another way to contribute if you want to do so. Don't like it, don't contribute. Pretty freaking easy, huh?

Yes, it is.

But here's the problem. The Obama Administration is asking people to demand that their own families draw a line. "I'm getting married, and I'm supporting Obama. If you love me, you'll support Obama too, by giving what would have been your wedding gift to me, to him instead." Either family members comply, or they refuse. Anyone who refuses will obviously be known, since they'll be the ones who didn't sign up for the registry. And a family feud begins.

Let families be with each other without turning it into political shenanigans. We have enough trouble getting along with each other.

Unfortunately, I see this as how this race is gonna wind up. Anything and everything will be turned into an attack, common sense be damned. There are so many real issues that need to be discussed in this election and THIS is something that even shows up on the radar?! Crazy.

At this point, I hardly even care. Both Romney and Obama are idiots and criminals, and I'm voting for Gary Johnson who hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell. So I may as well snipe from the sidelines.

 

[granfire]

Wow. That's beyond tacky, that's ... well, that's just plain offensive. Man, I think that's even worse than going to church and having the minister tell me how I should vote.

Ain't like that isn't happening...

Tacky? Like about 95% of current wedding practices.

'In lieu of presents'

I am sure the other side is kicking their hind ends that they did not think first of it.

At least in this case you know if you want to discuss politics with the couple - or if you want to remain friends with them.... :lfao:

 

[Big Don]

. If you love me, you'll support Obama too, by giving what would have been your wedding gift to me, to him instead." Either family members comply, or they refuse. Anyone who refuses will obviously be known, since they'll be the ones who didn't sign up for the registry. And a family feud begins.

If your whole family agrees on every issue, you've got a boring family...

 

[celtic_crippler]

FYI: Our President has a mental illness called Narcisstic Personality Disorder

From the Mayo Clinic:
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If your whole family agrees on every issue, you've got a boring family...

We disagree on every issue. We remain a family because we know better than to draw political lines and then demand our family members toe them.

 

[Master Dan]

When I think of myself as a conservative, I think of these things, in no particular order:

1) Strong military.
2) Small government.
3) State's rights.
4) Support for the Constitution.
5) Resistance to social change.

As I get older, I find myself more open to the role of government in areas of social services and regulation; I begin to see that the smooth functioning of society has come to depend on some of those things, and I don't resent them anymore. I am less rugged individualist and more communitarian-minded. However, I still resist and resent government intrusion into religion and the existing social order. I fear socialism, especially bungled, badly-done socialism. I also find myself fearing those GOP members who call themselves conservatives, but (as someone here mentioned) would make Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater spin in their graves. I fear they are less conservative and more populist-leaning-towards-fascist. The Left, I fear, is more populist-leaning-towards-fascist. Yes, fascism can be Left or Right -- it's mostly a militant brand of populism with Nationalist overtones. The Right is no longer 'Conservative' and the Left is no longer classical Liberal. They are both a mish-mash of gimme-gimmes with no regard for anyone but themselves and their vision of how the world ought to not just operate, but be forced to operate.

I am against being forced. So screw the Democrats and screw the Republicans. They both stink on ice.

Thank you very well said so where do we go from here I agree with what you are saying but the two word statements need to be fleshed out more in specifics that make sense gotta run but I think this could be a good thread basis to start constructive diolog as oppossed to constant left right bashing and if all else fails IF YOU HAVE ANY POO FLING IT NOW:ultracool

 

[granfire]

FYI: Our President has a mental illness called Narcisstic Personality Disorder

From the Mayo Clinic:
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.

You have to have that to even run for office....

 

[Tez3]

Has anyone considered putting a cap on what political parties spend on getting elected? Each candidate being only allowed to spend a reasonable, affordable amount of money to campaign, you could end up with more choice of candidates and parties if it didn't take enormous amounts of money for election campaigns.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Has anyone considered putting a cap on what political parties spend on getting elected? Each candidate being only allowed to spend a reasonable, affordable amount of money to campaign, you could end up with more choice of candidates and parties if it didn't take enormous amounts of money for election campaigns.

Political speech is free speech. So capping the amount of money the parties can spend limits their ability to speak freely. The courts have said no to that.

 

[Tez3]

Political speech is free speech. So capping the amount of money the parties can spend limits their ability to speak freely. The courts have said no to that.

I can't see how that works tbh, you can still say what you want on a smaller budget, perhaps the ad agencies, the television companies etc would be too much out of pocket not mention all the spin doctors the parties employ so would not be happy to lose money. Capping the money spent means a level playing field for everyone, means anyone can campaign then not just the rich. It would encourage some creative and inventive campaigns, rather than the mudslinging type, perhaps they would be short and to the point! You could all start your own parties and we could have a thread with your short pithy statements on! Be very cool to say I'd argued with a future American President on here, not to mention having a martial arts President!

 

[Sukerkin]

BillM's got no chance in politics, Tez, I am sad to say. For not only does he speak his mind rather than pander to the 'popular' line but he's honest with it. That'll never fly on the campaign trail .