jukken jutsu/gentle fist

Discussion in 'Japanese Martial Arts - General' started by bigfootsquatch, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. jtweymo

    jtweymo Orange Belt

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    Okay more info:

    Jukenjutsu is the Japanese form of Rou Quan Shu, usually called Rou Quan Fa. Chinese and Japanese forms exist, possible link to the korean Yu Kwon Sul (same kanji/hanzi, original form of Hapkido.)

    It's a kenpo (chuan fa) system that is related to a series of Shoalin forms by the same name "Rou Quan"
     
  2. kamishinkan

    kamishinkan Green Belt

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    This is interesting, in our art we have methods called Juken (soft fist) and Goken (hard fist). Our art is a 'combined' system of hard and soft methods. I have never heard of this before as a style/system. Very interesting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  3. jtweymo

    jtweymo Orange Belt

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    Hi ya Kamishinkan and the rest of ya!

    Actually sir(s), I dunno much of nothing about this system or style other than very quick reference searches (I do this all the time, I'm an amateur translator of Japanese and some Chinese, I do Budo translations... SOME OF MY BUDO TRANSLATIONS ARE HERE.)

    It's a form of Shoalin-based Kempo, but I can't tell when it was founded. I'd say it's newer as a system, since I've never heard of it before I did the reference searches... BUT the fact that Hapkido's founder originally used the same system named Koreanized to (Yu Kwon Sul ) AND that this term is associated with known Shoalin forms (Rou Quan, pronounced I think something like "[ JOW choo'uhn ]" if I'm not mistaken) sugguests that it's been around in one form or another much longer than we might otherwise have suspected. There's really no way that the Founder of Hapkido would have used so well known a reference to Shoalin boxing forms and the material not be refered to in doing so. Which might well explain why Hapkido does not more resemble Aikido from which it's beleived to derive. This would seem to indicate that Aikido was only one thing from which Hapkido derived... something like this Shoalin style kempo might also have contributed?

    Another possibility is that the Chinese and Japanese versions (Jukenjutsu and respectively Rou Quan Fa) actually represent an earlier form of Hapkido that entered China and Japan whilst still called (Yu Kwon Sul) and so are getting refered to by the original name, now Sinosized (being pronounced in Chinese and Japanese, that is to say.) THIS SORT OF THING IS COMMON IN ASIA (shared systems.) Please take note of the uniforms demonstrated on the Chinese web-site... that looks amazingly similar to modern Korean TKD/HKD uniforms. It is my supposition to you guys that this is exactly what it is... having been further transformed into
    a modern Shaolin associated form of Kempo/Chuan Fa.

    As for the forms of Goken "Hard fist" and Juken "Soft fist" you refer to, many systems of karate and kempo have some form of it, based off the Shaolin chuan fa equivalents. GOJU RYU!!

    Eeew I said a mouthfull in all of this... please remember that I do NOT know what this system is, it's only supposition (but I have some minor experience by which to make the suppositions.)
     
  4. jtweymo

    jtweymo Orange Belt

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    BTW, the traditional understanding of juken 柔拳 (rou quan) is an open hand, which is why it's called "soft fist" and refers to the hand grabbing the guys clothes or limbs (the gripping position resembles a fist.) The Goken 剛拳 (gāng quan) is standard usage of the fist to pummel with... for anyone who doesn't know these terms (I realize you fellas with these techniques already knew, I thought I'd clarify the subject.)

    BTW, the spinning kaiten movements in the jukenjutsu techniques... I know why they do this (standard Shaolin based kempo tactic): they grab your body or clothing with one hand (juken soft fist application) rotate kaiten to jerk you off balance, spinning around and plowing your now unbalanced body with the fist or foot (goken hard fist application.) The kempo and other Shaolin systems do this all the time, to unbalance and disshelve the opponent. It's associated with the wind element and "dragon form boxing", which is why dragon and tiger are used as associated sysmbols herewith: 'dragon' is juken and 'tiger' is goken.

    :) Are you a kempo or jukenjutsu practitioner? Peice of advice... in order to master this art along these relevant subject lines (juken and goken) you must carefully experiment with the mechanics of the limb/clothing grab and kaiten spin out. The physics of this maneuver are such that you MUST be accustomed to the torque created in order to land the fist or foot correctly. Otherwise you get thrown off balance yourself, your grip wrenched and you end up missing the target completely. The movements of the forms done one-man (alone, empty air shadow-boxing) are just to help learn the movements, two-man forms of practice are necessary to master the kempo/chuan fa techniques along these lines.
     
  5. Gin marturashi

    Gin marturashi White Belt

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    Sure what do you wish to know but keep in mind i have not yet mastered it so my knowledge is not that great. however, my master is that one you can talk to, but if you want to know anymore about the style i'll answer what I can so what is it you want to here?
     
  6. Gin marturashi

    Gin marturashi White Belt

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    What do you want to know?
     
  7. Gin marturashi

    Gin marturashi White Belt

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    Well you i can show you my video on youtube just go to the search bar and type in gentil fist you'll see a video with a guy in a red shirt on thats me then after thet go to the search bar agin and type in gentle fist you'll see a few videos all real no anime. Rate or comment please.
     
  8. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    This one?
    [yt]iuuvL-i6SaA[/yt]
    :rofl:
     
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  9. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    Mr. Marturashi, thanks very much for coming here and offering information but, based upon that video, there is nothing else that I wish to know about your "style".

    Perhaps others are still curious, I am not. :D
     
  10. jtweymo

    jtweymo Orange Belt

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    Hmm,

    Apparently the gentleman is either Middle eastern or Eastern european, I notice they were wearing caftan style face masks.

    The technique shown is indeed a kempo technique though... maybe he truly is a practitioner of jukenjutsu/rou quan fa?

    Did you guys get the links to the jukenjutsu websites in Chinese and Japanese that I posted several posts back?
     
  11. masterjuans

    masterjuans White Belt

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    Yes, i am Gin's teacher. I taught him the Gentle Fist style a long time ago.
    well for one the style is composed of 8 basic forms, 3 composite forms, and 3 master forms. 14 in all. however their are some other forms but they are only taught to the ones who master the 14 other forms.

    Me, i Have been studding the Gentle Fist style for about 8 years now. it was one of the first styles i have learned. All together i have been doing Martial Arts for about 9 years.
    the Gentle Fist style is a great Kung Fu style to study. The thing that i like most about it is the user can find there own rhythm. that being said the user can use their technique how ever they want as long as they follow the techniques principles. a lot of people look down on the style and say the techniques should be done all the same way.

    it has its advantages.

    1.one is that the user can find there battle movement to be smooth, rough, gentle, or composite. that helps out because it allows the technique to move freely with in battle. but the student hast to follow the techniques principles.

    2. every technique is the same. what that means is that each technique is the same when it is being done. that being said no matter what movement you have with the legs, the are techniques will work as long as you follow the techniques principles.

    3. training in ones own motion will allow the user to benefit from the training really good. that being said, the user can learn, adapt, and concur the technique as long as they follow the principles.
     
  12. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    What's the history of the style? What part of China did it originate in, who started it, and so on?

    When you say "every technique is the same", I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that any hand technique can be done with any footwork?
     
  13. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    And how many times are you going to make variations of the same post?
     
  14. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I got interrupted and had to run out, so I didn't get to finish this post and I had a few more questions.

    What's with the masks in a couple of the videos? (Assuming I found the right ones, of course.)

    I also saw no foot techniques; are there any?

    Again, I'd be really interested in hearing about the lineage and history of the style.
     
  15. Gin marturashi

    Gin marturashi White Belt

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    yes i surly will what do you wish to know???!
     
  16. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Scroll up. Several questions have been asked in previous posts.
     
  17. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    OK, I know I'm going to regret posting this, but I'll try and reiterate ALL the questions that have been asked that you've ignored ...
    1) What's the history of the style?
    2) What part of China did it originate in?
    3) Who started it and when?
    4) What's with the masks that some of the people are wearing?
    5) Are there any foot techniques?

    Most of this was asked back at the beginning of this thread, and no one has answered. My guess is that it isn't being answered because it was all made up by you kids in your backyard, and now you're hoping to pass it off as a legitimate martial art style. That's just the feeling that I get from looking at the video and reading the posts from you guys.

    I could be wrong though, it's been known to happen. :)
     
  18. Oldie

    Oldie White Belt

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    Firstly, allow me to admit that I have joined your forums because I stumbled across this thread in a google search and the discussion interested me.

    Now, onto what I was going to say before senility steals the thought altogether:

    This "Gentle Fist" style, as it has been described here, intrigues me particularly because it seems to sit on a direct parrallel with two of the three main styles that I have studied, Xiang I and Ba Gua (Collectively known as the "Three Brothers" the arts I study are all derivatives of Shaolin Temple Boxing).

    I can go into further detail if you want me to but if you would prefer that I just toss in my ten cents worth and scarper I won't mind.
     
  19. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Check out the video link above. It's basically two kids doing "live-action anime" in a backyard. Probably not related to the training you've experienced...
     
  20. Oldie

    Oldie White Belt

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    As they say. Fail.123
     

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