Is there such thing as overworking?

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by Ivan, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    I constantly feel the need to train. It's like an itch I can't scratch but I want to know whether I should push it. For starters, here is the schedule I try to stick to every week:
    MondayTuesdayWednesdayThursday
    Gym 0530-0645Gym 0630-0745Gym 0530-0645Gym 0530-0645
    Gym 1110-1300Boxing 1800-1910Run 1600-1730Gym 1130-1330
    Krav Maga 1900-2030Krav Maga 1900-2030
    or TKD 1800-2000
    Gym 1900-2015
    FridaySaturdaySunday
    Gym 0530-0645TKD 1000-1200Gym 1130-1300
    Olympic Weightlifting (College Activity) 1300-1345Gym 1230-1400
    Gym 1830-2000
    This is supplemented by a steady core workout every two days, and stretching every two days to improve flexibility and core strength. The rest of my spare time will be distributed towards studying for college (UK version of college not university), food and sleep. I am a 17 year old and I'm wondering if I'm doing too much? Every time I try to tell myself to chill I think of the stories of a Judoka who would train 12 hours a day - if he can do it, why can't I? Is this a reasonable program to stick to? I would be getting about 8 hours of sleep per day, good meals and cold showers to help with muscle relaxation and regeneration.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Overtraining can lead to burnout, and you might kill your interest altogether and you could end up injured. It is a definite possibility.

    Are you overtraining? I dunno. Everyone is different. Can you keep up such a pace I definitely? Probably not. Eventually you will need to scale back your training due to burnout or exhaustion or injury or that other life obligations get in the way. Eventually that just happens.

    When you are young, you can train a lot. If you are passionate about it, then have at it. Just be careful about what I’ve mentioned above.

    As you get older and life does not allow you to train as much, you work to maintain what you built when you were younger.
     
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  3. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Of course there's such a thing as over training. These "stories" of judo guys. Who cares about those guys? Your not them. Everyone reacts differently. You have to decide that. But training every day you'll pick up some injury along the way. Why do you need to train so much? You making money of it? Is it your job? If the answer to that is no then you don't need to be training that much. You can sure but if you have one day where you don't do anything. It won't make any difference. You won't get majorly worse just because you have a day off. Enjoy like don't take it so serious . It's a hobby at the end of the day.

    Also Tuesday gym 6:30-6:45....I very much doubt you missing 15 minute workout is going make any difference
     
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  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Another thing: be careful that you don’t spread yourself too thin by doing too many different things, and you don’t progress in any of them. Maybe lots of training would be better focused on fewer things, even one thing.

    But only you can decide for you. And your opinion on that may change as you get older.
     
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  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    And another thing: make sure you have a life outside of your training. You know: friends, dating, relationships, family, quality time spent with people in ways that isn’t connected to training, time for other interests. Don’t end up with nothing outside of your training. That can become a dull and lonely life.
     
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  6. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    Future job
     
  7. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Doing what?
     
  8. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You only run one day a week, but run for 1.5 hours that day? Depending on the purpose, you might be better off running each day for less time, doing a mix of sprints and jog, since I'm guessing that currently it's mostly a jog. Unless running is already a part of your gym time too.
     
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  9. Kababayan

    Kababayan Blue Belt

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    If you feel up to it, keep training. Flying Crane said it best: Everyone is different. Professional fighters train all day (albeit with rest breaks). Back in my fighting days I trained four to six hours a day and kept that pace for years. Most of us included weight training in addition to our fight training. Still to this day, at 44 yrs old, I train Krav and Bjj consistently while still weight training. Injuries take a little longer to heal as you get older, but just train until you don't want to anymore. There are many great reasons to pace yourself, but don't do it just because everything thinks you need to. Just enjoy what you are doing and stop when you aren't enjoying it anymore (or are injuring yourself).
     
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  10. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    One thing to keep in mind is: listen to your body. If your knee is hurting, give it rest. If you're noticing soreness that a 17 year old shouldn't have, figure out why. And dont worry too much about taking a break for a week if you need to.

    I didn't listen to that advice when i was in college, had a similar schedule (although a bit more focused), and have knee/shoulder issues still going on 5 years later.
     
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  11. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Green Belt

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    Over training is a real thing but it's highly individual. It will even vary a lot for the same individual depending on things like emotional stress, changes in eating or sleeping habits, etc. Emotional stress can have a huge impact on physical recovery, I saw one client go from making no progress at all in the weight room to doubling just about every number in very short order when he switched from a miserable job where he was failing to his dream job. Obviously at 17 you can handle a larger volume and intensity of training than you'll likely tolerate at 57. The main thing to remember is that even if you can maintain a really heavy training load during a summer break you might not progress or even regress if you try to keep it up as you're approaching final exams or if you have a really heavy course load during a term.

    The best way to know if you're over training is to take notes. It also happens to be really valuable for making progress in general. Document your workouts, know whether you're actually improving or just churning through your workouts but making little progress. If you aren't performing better next month than you are now you should be examining why things haven't improved. Contrary to what most people expect, if you aren't progressing it's more likely that you're over training than doing too little. If you don't have notes you can't experiment to see what works and what doesn't. You should also note how you feel. If you're finding that you're regularly tired, getting sick a lot, or dealing with minor injuries on a regular basis, these can all be a good sign that you're over training.

    If you experience any of these things or you don't seem to be making regular progress, try reducing frequency or volume and then see if things improve. Your body isn't getting stronger when you're performing the exercise, that just sends a signal to your body that it's current capabilities aren't sufficient for the demands that are being placed upon it. Your body needs time and rest to actually make the changes necessary to adapt in response to that stimulus.

    I can say more on this if you're interested but this hits the highlights.
     
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  12. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Also these stories of people training 12 hours a day. First if they are even true yeah great but what state are their bodies in in their old age? I'd be confident to bet that they would be full of injuries by then especially something like judo.

    Also don't always believe these type of stories. There's a lot of exaggerated ego pushing BS stories thrown out there in all styles. When I hear stuff like that I take it with a grain of salt. If they did then okay but I'm not going use some old folk tales to compare myself to
     
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  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    You mentioned being at school so I assume there is a convenience to hitting the gym, MA classes, and track. I say go for it while you are young. Sounds like work and money are not big issues yet so take advantage of it.
    That said, here is my advise. Train with a specific purpose. It will give you purpose and help you find a need for balance. You don't want to wake up one day and randomly decide "I don't need to work out today. It can set a bad pattern of ups and downs. You are pretty spread out; lifting, running, boxing, Krav, & TKD, school, family? work?, etc... The workouts all compliment each other and it is not a necessity but which is your passion? Nothing wrong with being a generalist but what do you want to hang your hat on?
    When I was training for the Olympics I trained 6 days/week 4-5 hour per day, and worked a full time job. So I get your pace and that "feeling" and drive. My only caution is to look down the road. See where/when the burnout is coming. Is surely will at least to some degree. Mine peaked after the trials and I all but quite training outside of TKD classes. In hindsight, that balanced my training with the rest of my life's schedule. But I had a lot of other commitments, which it doesn't sound like you have yet.
    Don't abuse or take advantage of anything, (parents, wife, friends, etc...). It will come back to haunt you.

    Specific to your schedule, I know you are young and stretching does not seem important, but it is The most important thing you should do IMHO. Do it dynamic pre-workout and static post workout. Make it a habit. You are doing several things only one day/week. Very little chance for muscle memory to take hold without more repetition. Meaning it will take longer to learn any one thing, which can lead to frustration and disappointment.
    Pick one style, work it until some level of proficiency, then consider picking up something else.
    The 12 hour/day Judoka were in a time when they had Nothing else to do. That is just not the world we live in today.
     
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  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You should work hard and be exceptional at what you do.

    Don't listen to other people's excuses for being mediocre.
     
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  15. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ivan, do you have instructors or trainers that are guiding you? Or are you just winging it?

    And if you don't mind me asking, what do your folks think? If you do mind, that's okay, too.
     
  16. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure if this is addressed at me or others, but if it is to my posts-

    I absolutely think Ivan should work hard and be exceptional at what he does. If this schedule works for him, that's great. If he isn't burned out and can fit more, than he should do that too. He just needs to pay attention to injuries and not work through them, since that's what causes issues. It happens in plenty of sports on the professional level too-someone plays/practices through injuries, not giving it time to heal, and that injury becomes career ending.
     
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  17. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    As much as I would love to concentrate on one style, Boxing only offers one session a week; Krav and TKD offer two but they overlap so I’m trying to do the two of Krav and the one from TKD that doesn’t overlap. Overall, I’m using boxing to train my punching, TKD for my kicks, and Krav for general self defence. Thanks for your input I’ll try to incorporate it
     
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  18. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    I have instructors only for each individual style as in, a boxing coach etc. But this schedule I made myself. I want to push myself so I can be the best I can at this stuff, as I want to own my own dojo when I’m older.

    As for my parents, they’re not really aware, but as long as I perform in school and don’t overwork myself, hence this post on my forum, they won’t mind, even though they would prefer if I had picked another sport to be passionate about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  19. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    How are you going to train someone else if you are not proficient at the material? Would you want to train from the guy down the street that only practiced his style once or twice per week? Take the extra days and set your own practice schedule to work the material of one style, Krav in your example.
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you can box kickbox or wrestle well you are automatically going to be a thousand times better at Krav.



    And this is because to perform any of the concepts Krav teaches you have to be able to move around an oponant in real time.

    Without this important element nothing you learn really works.123
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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