Is there a point to learning how to knife fight?

Discussion in 'Knife Arts' started by Gruenewald, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Oh for crying out loud....

    Life is not a movie.
     
  2. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Okay.

    Okay.

    Okay.

    [​IMG] (Thanks google image search)

    [​IMG] (Thanks, google image search)

    Doable, and a total waste of everything conceivable, from time, to effort, to your life.

    Okay.

    Okay.

    Yeah, except just about anyone can throw six punches per second, give or take 1-2. There is no 'community that can', anyone can do it. The punches are gonna be rubbish, but theyll do fine. Your body being dosed up on chemicals helps a bunch.

    Neither of which are remotely useful techniques in this case.

    Okay.

    No. You can hide boots in plain sight. Then theres sap gloves, kubotans, rings, cord worn as a necklace... The list goes on.

    That hardly sounded like an attack, at all. Those guys sucked. Ive seen ten year olds attack with more ferocity than what youre describing.



    Okay.



    Okay.



    [​IMG] (Thanks google image search)

    It means they grabbed their knife, and thats how it was in their hand when they grabbed it. Nothing more.



    It means they grabbed their knife, and thats how it was in their hand when they grabbed it. Nothing more.

    Riiight. Except, the law doesnt care, and you need to get the thing out first.
     
  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    You will have to pardon me if I find zero martial value in parlor tricks.

    Six punches per second are less than useless as punches and slightly less usefull than one single thrust when holding a knife. I would LOVE for someone to try that speed punching idiocy on me while boxing and I would positively be ecstatic for some fool to try six super speed thrusts on me in knife fighting. I would laugh hysterically ...you know, after I killed him for trying such an unsound and stupid technique. :p

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  4. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    It reads like Dux autobiography.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  5. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    See what I was saying, Kirk...?

    Oh, and Alex? Know how many punches I throw in a second? One. You know why....?
     
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  6. grumpywolfman

    grumpywolfman Black Belt

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    Ok, smart guy. I see that the only way to end this argument is like REAL MEN DO: Broadway musical style, with light sabers, fancy dance moves to simulate a real fight, and the drama, lots of drama.

     
  7. grumpywolfman

    grumpywolfman Black Belt

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    :hmm: I'm starting to wonder if should rethink my decision of incorporating Dandelions in my daily diet?
     
  8. Aiki Lee

    Aiki Lee Master of Arts

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    More like 90% then, it seems the 60% you give him is stuff he is broadly applying. Thus it's wrong to me. I agree with your responses to him though and see where you are coming from.
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Fair enough. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  10. cloud dancing

    cloud dancing Yellow Belt

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    left for 5 -1/2 days to die/Vietnam 69/after land mine blast. other serious **** PI 83
    I always carry 2 or more knives. practise daily.adddicted to the blade. avoid ifights. but feels good to know/I have defense vs multiples or single attackers. never go outside w/o blade.
    one straight razor folder and belt knife.also two pens. anyone saying I caint disable.or kill with simple bic pen is wrong,
     
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  11. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    If you have access to either, when would you choose a pen over a blade? thank you x
     
  12. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    What is the situation, Jenna?
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I propose two different events
    1. I want to take a few notes
    2. I want to divide a piece of rope and a sandwich
    ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  14. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    "Is there a point to learning how to knife fight?"

    Yes. The training is very cutting edge.















     
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  15. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Danny in London I could only carry a non-locking knife w/less than 3in blade, every one has a pen though.. I am wondering for some one like that member cloud dancing who can carry both and seems to know how to use both defensively ie. "anyone saying I caint disable.or kill with simple bic pen is wrong", I wonder under what defensive circumstances would a pen be what you would reach for? Jx
     
  16. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    The situation will always depict that action. (or should). Situational awareness and an egress plan.
    For normal everyday I carry weapons... multiple... knives, tactical flashlight, firearm, flexible, tactical pen, common sense and good verbal skills. When flying I am down to a walking stick, tactical flashlight, my belt, a tactical pen, a wooden pencil, a 4 foot zip tie, my common sense and good verbal skills.
    I have a force continuum that I have trained and practice using different scenarios.
    Every situation is different and the response will be different. I do not go about looking for an excuse use them. I am prepared to leave and if unable to leave the situation I am prepared to defend myself and my love ones to the best of my ability.

    Now my story is I'm a somewhat eccentric yet caring grandfather with some odd habits. And I'm sticking to that.
     
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  17. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Of course you can use an improvised weapon as a weapon. People have been doing it since forever. The thing is, a knife is a tool which has been optimized for cutting and, usually, stabbing; two things which also tend to optimize it for use as a weapon (defense or offense). A pen, on the other hand, is a tool which has been optimized for writing. The vast majority of pens are only so-so at stabbing, and often just plain bad at it, and no pen that I've ever seen does a particularly good job at cutting. This makes it a less ideal choice for a self defense weapon when compared to an actual knife. Pens have the advantage of not looking like a weapon (because, you know, they're not) which can provide the element of surprise and they can be carried in places where knives are forbidden. Having a poor weapon is generally better than having no weapon at all. But a modern pen is simply never going to be as effective a tool at performing the jobs of a knife as an actual knife is. ...ever.

    When I didn't have a knife, gun, cane, club, slungshot, staff, sword, or some other tool which is actually a weapon.

    A pen is better than bare hands, but only just so.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  18. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Jenna,

    You are out for dinner and a drink. The young males a table next to you or over a couple start to get loud. No big deal. No they start to get pushy with other people around them. One can reach for the pen and have it in hand to draw pictures on your napkin, and if they attack you well it is just in your hand. Where as if you clear the blade in the restaurant, many will freak out and believe you have escalated the level of violence potential.
     
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  19. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    You're in a restaurant eating dinner? Seems like you might just as well have a steak knife in your hand. Or a heavy glass, a mug, bottle of wine... good lord, if you need weapons the only place better than the table is the kitchen!
     
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  20. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Since the thread had gone quiet 2013 I am not so worried about derailing it to ask you a bit more about the pen if it is ok?

    @Danny T that is quite an arsenal for your edc.. I hope there is not cause for you to have to use it in future and but you sound like the right man to ask.. you had referred to a force continuum which is perfectly clear can you explain a bit more.. is that continuum flexible or situationally dependent or would the pen *always* be less preferred than say the knife if it came to protecting your self or kids or grand kids (you have grand kids really? :)) Thank you Jx

    And @lklawson, Kirk I appreciate your insights.. like you are saying the pen can have the element of surprise –I guess provided it is not an obvious tac pen- and is there where a knife is forbidden.. what I want to ask you is in a situation where you believe you may have to use a weapon and have only a pen to hand would you feel capable with that improvised weapon or compromised for lacking the efficiency of your blade? Like is the pen enough or do you feel ill equipped with it or would it really just depend on how and what you had trained? Hope this make some sense.. Thank you again Jx

    And @Rich Parsons, Rich! It is great to have your thoughts, yes you are exactly right, this is what I mean about being seen to have caused a problem because I had a weapon rather than some thing I improvised.. this did happen before where I had carried a blade (only for appearance since I have no skill with it) and had been put in a situation where I had to take it out though I did not use it or even know what I intended to do except scare them.. they ended up calling the Met and I got stopped and cautioned before I had even reached home and so I do not want to be in a situation where it is like *I* am the bad guy even though I am minding my business.. hence the pen.. it is just a pen I know how to use it as yawara/kubotan and so now nobody can say nothing.. so my question is to you and the others who do use and can use blades is, would there be any occasion where you could equally deploy a pen or a blade where you would actually choose the pen.. why am I asking? because it could be that I am deluding my self about being able to defend my self with a dumb pen or improvised key whip or whatever.. hope I am making sense.. thank you Jx
     

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