injured student

[fullkontact]

well said, you have an amazing gift for words. It's staggering how you used so few words to insult me so many times. I know I have not been teaching as long as some of you, however I think that 14 years should give me a little perspective. I am sure you are right, at YOUR school perhaps the way you spar isn't for the beginner. But the way that WE spar, ie extremely light or no contact, full safety gear, and constant supervision, is completely safe. In the time that I have been teaching, students injure theirselves more practicing kicks than they do in sparring. And they are not only beginners. All the guy did was step back and put weight on his rear leg, same thing could have happened getting out of the car. Would you suggest a training regimen before attemting such a feat as getting out of a car?
And you don't know anything about my credentials, and I don't feel obligated to tell you. If you are curious you may ask any respected school in Oregon and they will tell you. Freedom of speach is a wonderfull thing, I just worry for you the day you 'speak freely' to the wrong person.
But that's not my way, and I will merely say thank you for your opinion.

 

[shesulsa]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-G Ketchmark / shesulsa
-MT Senior Moderator-

 

[bcbernam777]

Actually, he does not seem to care or be learning.
Yes, injuries happen - even to experienced people. But based on responses, he does not seem to have learned the he needs to properly train people before they spar.
This is a dangerous teacher and I am sure more of his students will be needlessly injured.
It's this kind of idiot that helps give martial arts schools in general bad reputations and causes people to push for regulation of martial arts training. This school needs to have thier credentials seriously reviewed and maybe a more experienced/qualified teacher put in there.

To harsh and not helpful

 

[Adept]

Actually, he does not seem to care or be learning.
Yes, injuries happen - even to experienced people. But based on responses, he does not seem to have learned the he needs to properly train people before they spar.
This is a dangerous teacher and I am sure more of his students will be needlessly injured.
It's this kind of idiot that helps give martial arts schools in general bad reputations and causes people to push for regulation of martial arts training. This school needs to have thier credentials seriously reviewed and maybe a more experienced/qualified teacher put in there.

Like I said above, if your senior students cannot spar with newbies without injuring them, then your training needs to be re-evaluated.

If your newbies are unable to control themselves, and by this I don't mean control their techniques, but control their temper, aggression levels, and follow the sparring rules, then they need a stern talking to.

In either case, there should be no problems allowing students to spar on their first night, if all the relevant paperwork is filled out.

 

[MartialIntent]

fullkontact - have you spoken to the student? I'm betting he's probably keen to get back - it sounds like he's a motivated individual - maybe just a bit overzealous? Not a bad thing but that's probably what's got him into trouble...

I certainly don't think you should blame yourself or your instructors and I don't think playing a blame game [as in some previous posts] is ever helpful in any situation.

You're right, the guy's knee will undoubtedly take a while to heal but if he's still interested, stick with him - once he's up and back on the horse -as it were- I'm sure there's plenty of upper body stuff he can start on.

I also agree with what was said up-thread: you're undoubtedly a concerned instructor otherwise you'd have shrugged and been on your way. Instead, this has affected you deeply [as it would any genuine instructor that has had this happen in their school] and you're on MT trying to make some sense of it.

fwiw, I've been on both ends of that equation and you know what? It works out in the end. He sounds like the type of student that can take a knockdown and come back fighting. And really, that's what our martial arts are about after all. Right?

Good luck.

Respects!

 

[beau_safken]

Well it is always unfortunate when a student is injured in any manner or fashion.

I am not going to weigh in on the 2 weeks issue as even light sparring has WAY too many variables to give a definate good or bad suggestion. My only comment will be that if he put weigh back on his rear support leg opposed to forward into the kick, its just a matter of inexperience. Sparring the first time is usually a tough cookie anyway. I remember falling flat on my *** a number of times as I was trying to kick in TKD as I hadn't gotten down the weight transfer yet.

The knee's on people are always something that are questionable at best. Im sure you did all you could because you cant exactly ask for a complete physical evaluation prior to joining your school. I knew a lot of people with issues in their knee's but wouldnt say anything until they couldnt walk anymore(Generally obviously).

As stated above, just question the persons involved. You cant really prevent those kinds of problems, its the nature of the game. However, I do think that having the proper technique for control is very important in maintaining both control and awareness for the student. But at 30 there are many issues that havent been discussed.

Did this student have decent kicking, punching technique?
How about balance?
Few extra pounds being 200-225 or 300+ range?
Awareness of self and other while practicing?

Good luck and thank you for being a compationate and caring teacher. Those kinds of teachers are few and far between.

Beau

 

[TLHisComing]

just seems like a very unfortunate accident. Sounds like it could have happened to him walking down the street the next day. I dont see where the instructor would be at fault at all. I also feel the comments made about him getting a lawyer and suing are incredibly out of line. Thats the type of attitude that causes us to use waivers and drives up insurance costs and shuts the doors on many good schools. I also thing trying to define a time to begin sparring is insane. Simply because your starting at a green belt level or a brown or black belt level means nothing the possibilities of injuries often times more severe injuries are still present. I also see no reason why he would not be able to practice upper body techniques from a seated position. Several of the self defense scenarios I teach in my classes involve being seated as if at a table, in a car, or in a movie theater. It is all upper body from a seated position hand strikes blocks and joint locks. But those are just my opinions.

 

[chogyunim]

some would say that sparring after two weeks might be a little soon. i think that it depends on your style of martial arts, and whether your instructor feels you are ready. you may think this is too soon, but we do not go all out full contact on anybody. not even in our adult class. All sparring students no matter what their age, help out the student new to sparring.
i do agree that keeping him interested throughout his recovery would be good. There are tons of books and other resources to keep injured people interested so they hopefully will want to continue.

 

[chogyunim]

Actually, he does not seem to care or be learning.
Yes, injuries happen - even to experienced people. But based on responses, he does not seem to have learned the he needs to properly train people before they spar.
This is a dangerous teacher and I am sure more of his students will be needlessly injured.
It's this kind of idiot that helps give martial arts schools in general bad reputations and causes people to push for regulation of martial arts training. This school needs to have thier credentials seriously reviewed and maybe a more experienced/qualified teacher put in there.

his credentials have nothing to do with this. He merely posted this issue of discussion to get some feedback and vent. not to be slammed on because you have nothing better to do. everyone is entitled to their opinion but you still shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

 

[chogyunim]

just seems like a very unfortunate accident. Sounds like it could have happened to him walking down the street the next day. I dont see where the instructor would be at fault at all. I also feel the comments made about him getting a lawyer and suing are incredibly out of line. Thats the type of attitude that causes us to use waivers and drives up insurance costs and shuts the doors on many good schools. I also thing trying to define a time to begin sparring is insane. Simply because your starting at a green belt level or a brown or black belt level means nothing the possibilities of injuries often times more severe injuries are still present. I also see no reason why he would not be able to practice upper body techniques from a seated position. Several of the self defense scenarios I teach in my classes involve being seated as if at a table, in a car, or in a movie theater. It is all upper body from a seated position hand strikes blocks and joint locks. But those are just my opinions.

i would have to agree!!!!