improper touching in the Dojo

[rachel]

There is a man in our class who when paired up with my friend or myself, maybe other women too, I haven't asked them yet , always ends up punching our breasts. When he is supposed to throw punches at us and we have to block them he always punches too high or low and manages to punch our breasts. My friend thinks he does it on purpose. I think he may on occasion but that he might have a depth perception problem.I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Any way I talked to our teacher and he said it's not really his place to say anything to this man and we should tell him ourselves. I prefer not to work with this individual because of this. I can tell this person but the teacher said in a real fight we could be touched on our breasts and to deal with it. Wrong answer? I'm kinda pissed with my teachers response to this. If someone is trying to cop free feels in the Dojo it's unacceptable. And we can block it's just that he always manages to get a few touches in and we are not happy. What should we do?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

An occational shot, yeah, suck it up. A constant thing? Thats different.

You did the right thing by going to your instructor. Sadly, hes not responsive to you. INHO, if the situation makes you that uncomfortable, you have few options.

1- Leave. And let him know why you left. While he is right on the 'in the street' bit, you aren't training in the street.

2- Next time the guy does it, politely request that he connect elsewhere. If it happens again, its def. on purpose.

3- Refuse to work with him. Tell your instructor you are not comfortable with that individual and will not work with him again. You have that right.

4- (my favorite) get a sports bra, and place several thumbtacks (facing outward) in strategic places. When my grabby connects, his yelp of pain will announce things for you.

5- When doing techniques that aim for his groin, 'accidentally' connect. Hey...it happens in the street right?

 

[A.R.K.]

5- When doing techniques that aim for his groin, 'accidentally' connect. Hey...it happens in the street right?

Exactly right :rofl: Maybe you should develop a momentary, selective depth perception problem on a kick! Should only take once to send home the message.

And it IS your instuctor's place to mention this! He's coping out and passing the buck. An instructor runs the class, this means he RUNS the class. If there is a problem he should rush to find a resolution.

Sorry this is happening to you Rachel Your right, it is unacceptable.

 

[John Bishop]

First off it is ALWAYS the instructors place to set and enforce the rules of conduct in his school.
And NO, women should not have to put up with inappropriate touching in training, just because it could happen in a "real fight". Maybe you should tell this individual to take off his cup because he wont have it in a "real fight".
Accidental hard contact and inappropriate touching will happen, but it should only be a rare occassion.
Your instructor needs to take responsibility for the conduct of his students. Or, maybe you need another instructor.

 

[rachel]

Thank you, everyone.

 

[Ender]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz


4- (my favorite) get a sports bra, and place several thumbtacks (facing outward) in strategic places. When my grabby connects, his yelp of pain will announce things for you.

5- When doing techniques that aim for his groin, 'accidentally' connect. Hey...it happens in the street right?

*LOL...gotta love it...good answer.

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

I have to agree with the others, reading your post made me mad. I cant believe your instructor said that. If a female student at my school had the same problem and the instructor said that to her, Id leave with her.

In my humble opinion this has now escalated past the original problem. What your teacher said is an indication of what I would consider problems with his character. It seems that he values money over the well being of his students.

Even if you find out that this mans "breast punching" is just an accident, your still left with having to make a decision regarding your teachers actions.

 

[lonekimono]

Wll there is a good tecq you could use and it can fall under the "what if" squeezing the peach, or thrushing prong
but when you do it,do it then the person will know,and he will stop.
"it's not who's right it's who's left"

so go ahead hit him with right and then hit him with the left :asian: and please keep me posted

 

[Eggman]

if you are training withthis person there should be no problem talking to him about this issue. We have an equal ammount of women and men in our adult class and if i happen to touch a boob, a shot to the kids will surely follow. Payback is a *****!!!

 

[tshadowchaser]

I'll agree with what the others have said if he is grabing or just touching.
If he is throwing a controlled punch and you do not block that is your problem. Would you prefer he hit you in the face if you miss the block? The talk seems to say it was touching yet you said trowing a punch.
Yes, talk to him. your instructor should have said something or at least be watching to see if this a deliberate. Your instructor is in the wrong if the actions are intended to get a free touch .
Talk to the other ladys if enough of you are haveing the same problem go to the instructor in mass and demand a solution or you all walk.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Let me clarify befor anyone gets the wrong idea. I do not condone improper touching in class. If I find out a student is doing so he/she first ges the crap kicked out of him then is is told to leave permenately.
I think any student is going to get touched once in a while. It happens. Hell we throw at least 30 or 40 groin shots a night in class. punches to the chest , who counts, we block or get hit.
Grabbing a breast when that is not the tech. Thats a no no and see the first paragraph.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by rachel
1. There is a man in our class who when paired up with my friend or myself, maybe other women too, I haven't asked them yet , always ends up punching our breasts. When he is supposed to throw punches at us and we have to block them he always punches too high or low and manages to punch our breasts.
2. My friend thinks he does it on purpose. I think he may on occasion but that he might have a depth perception problem.I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
3. Any way I talked to our teacher and he said it's not really his place to say anything to this man and we should tell him ourselves.
4. I prefer not to work with this individual because of this. I can tell this person but the teacher said in a real fight we could be touched on our breasts and to deal with it. Wrong answer?
5. I'm kinda pissed with my teachers response to this. If someone is trying to cop free feels in the Dojo it's unacceptable. And we can block it's just that he always manages to get a few touches in and we are not happy. What should we do?

Hi Rachel,
1. That's not good.
2. That many times, I'd say so.
3. It is totally his place. Does he want a lawsuit for sexual harrassment because "it's not his place"?
4. Don't work with this person.
5. Understandable. If the teacher won't enforce this, get another teacher.
It's one thing when you arre doing situational defenses and in a contact situation like martial arts, you are going to get touched - just as a guy is going to get the occasional nut grab. It's part of the game. But an over and over scene like that is deliberate and should not be countenanced.

Yorus,
Dan Anderson

 

[Jay Bell]

Rachel,

My mind is reaching out and grabbing ideas...so bear with me on this. I'm not convinced that "accidental" is the appropriate idea here. Even if he isn't consciously aiming for "them"...some part of him is focusing on "them" or his body wouldn't create a target out of "them". Follow me? Just a wondering thought...

Like many people have said, if the instructor will not help you in this, I would leave and never look back. If the instructor was being groped by said guy, I'm sure he would definately have a problem with what was happening. It's not him...he could care less. Very bad.

I would say that speaking to the guy about it is important. #1 -- it'll get it off of your chest (laugh it up wiseguys )...which is extremely important, especially when you and other females feel a violation has occured. #2 -- You may bring him some awareness of something that hasn't consciously "clicked" in his head. How is he to know (if this is the case) that he's doing something wrong if he's oblivious that it's causing an issue?

Good luck with it...let us know how things turn out

-Jay

 

[rachel]

Thanks for your input,everyone. I just got back from class and this student was not there tonight nor my usual instructor. When this person comes back and I have to work with him I will make sure he knows that he'd better not hit me again. The point is once or twice okay it happens. More than that there's something wrong.My teacher is very good.Don't get me wrong but I expected more out of him than the answer I got and it ticked me off. I don't want to leave my school. Everyone gets along well. It's like a family. We'll see what happens next class.

 

[rmcrobertson]

rachel:

I generally agree with what's been written; just wanted to mention a coupla things briefly.

1) What rank is the guy? If he's a white belt, maybe cut him some slack...but at some point, you are supposed to learn control...

2) Maybe you could dodge around his resistances by insisting that he work the techniques to the proper targets.

3) Don't know 'im, but your insturctor might be saying that you need to learn how to deal with this sort of crap...after all, as the woman who first taught me used to say," Well, who's going to attack you on the street? Somebody nice?"

4) Where's he hitting guys?

5) Other things being equal, repay in kind. Smack the groin, and do it in a way that connects what he's doing wrong to a sharp, tingly sensation Down There...conditioned response, don't ya know.

6) Tell him directly and clearly what the problem is. It'll be difficult, but maybe you can consider it an aspect of your training...maybe he's as stressed and confused as you are, and maybe you should just use him as a cheap dummy...

7) But as was noted by others--when all else fails, no no no, just hit him.

 

[Seig]

Rachel,
Tess and I can definately understand your situation. Half my students are women, and most of them are well endowed. Does "accidental contact" occur? You betcha it does. In most instances, we ignore it. Sometimes we joke about it. Tonight in sparring class, Tess blasted Jennifer in a breast. Jennifer's response was, "How do you expect me to feed my children?" It was hysterical. Unfortunately, once in a while we have an adolescent that has not learned to control his anatomy, this has caused problems. After one such complaint, I made sure that he never wanted to be in class without a cup again, and two years later he remembers the lesson. When one intentionally strikes or grabs the breast of a female member, it is absolutely the place of the instructor/head instructor/owner to step in and put a stop to it. This is not something a female should have to endure. The personal issues aside, it can cause medical issues, issues that can be avoided. One thing you may want to consider is a chest protector, which is good for women to wear in heavy contact or sparring situations. Does this in anyway alleviate the issue of improper touching? No. If "speaking" to the individual by a person of authority or rank does not resolve the issue, then I strongly endorse any of the actions suggested by the others here. At our school, the "Bruise Brothers" (Stick Dummy and myself) have a saying, "Pain will be your guide." (We have a bunch of slogans like that )

 

[Astra]

A few times during a single session? That sounds a bit too much, unless he's really got some coordination and depth perception problems.

Not hitting..uhm.. the voluptuous curvatures of women has never been really a problem for me, even during the time I was a teen and totally incompetent in MA.

Not to say it hasn't happened a few times, but that is a few times in a few years!

Personally, I'd speak to the guy and let him know you have a problem. If he keeps doing it, smack him back as suggested.

 

[rachel]

I will talk to him next time I see him. He's a blue belt with a green stripe. If he was a white belt I'd cut him some slack.

 

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

As another female student of the MAs, I know how you feel. I had this problem with one of the adolescents in the class and basically, I really knocked him off guard. He was quite surprised about where I got all my energy from to come back and ream it out on him. He hasn't touched me ever again.... So, just basically do all you can do to go back at this guy, he deserves it. Oh yes, and about your instructor...I would have made sure that every female in the school knew about how he "handled" your situation. It is his place to go and tell this guy to knock it off and to have you talk to this guy about it; that wouldn't work. While working out, you shouldn't have to deal with these types of problems.

 

[jeffkyle]

You can beat up the harrasser and no one will care!
And you can repeat the process every class!