T
TKD USA
Guest
Is there any where I can find the full cycle of Hwarang do kicks on the internet? I want to compare them to TaeKwoDo kicks.
Bob D.
Green Belt
Hi, It wouldn't do any good. Your unlikely to see the differences in pictures. Find one of the instructors that was around in the 70's for the most obvious distinctions. Bob D.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
OK, I KNOW I am going to get myself into trouble for this, but I just GOTTA ask!! What are you going to use the information for? Lets take a look at your question piece by piece, do you mind?
First off, there is no such thing as a "Hwa Rang Do" kick. If you are thinking of the kicking techniques done by the practitioners of the art practiced by Joo Bang Lees' WHRDA then what you want to do is back up one generation to Kim, Moo Woong from whom Lee got his kicking material and look at that. In all earnestness I must tell you that few historians can agree on what the Hwa Rang were let alone what they practices or how so I suspect this modern namesake is about all you have to work with.
Secondly if you want to do a comparison, I suggest you compare apples to apples as the saying goes. Hapkido is SD. TKD is a sport. The goals and applications of the two arts are different, ergo the execution is different. Want to compare things? Compare Early Choi material of Hapkido proceeding from Kim, Moo Woong and that proceeding from Ji Han Jae. Both are Hapkido approaches. Want to compare TKD, try ITF and WTF.
Lastly, there is SO MUCH stuff out on the Internet I am wondering why you are taking time to ask what has been explained and re-explained many, many times. If you are seriously interested in either TKD or HKD how about doing some grunt-work and getting some background information first and then bringing THAT to the table for discussion. Dr He-Young Kimms' book, "HAPKIDO" and "HAPKIDO II" are both excellent resources. Myung Kwang Sik wrote one of the first English-language books on Hapkido and General Choi wrote an exhaustive series on the art including his admonition to practitioners that they avail themselves of Hapkido to bolster the failings of TKD in the SD dept.
I guess I am wondering, if your question is important enough to enter into an international venue such as this, how much you are willing to look for an answer and how much you are asking to have things spoonfed to you? Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I may off-base here but I think a full listing can be found on the same site as the complete catalog of Chinese Boxing strikes, the Unabridged Listing of Wrestling Grapples, The Offical Compendium of White Sox Bat Swings and the Great Book Steeler Interceptions.
First off, there is no such thing as a "Hwa Rang Do" kick. If you are thinking of the kicking techniques done by the practitioners of the art practiced by Joo Bang Lees' WHRDA then what you want to do is back up one generation to Kim, Moo Woong from whom Lee got his kicking material and look at that. In all earnestness I must tell you that few historians can agree on what the Hwa Rang were let alone what they practices or how so I suspect this modern namesake is about all you have to work with.
Secondly if you want to do a comparison, I suggest you compare apples to apples as the saying goes. Hapkido is SD. TKD is a sport. The goals and applications of the two arts are different, ergo the execution is different. Want to compare things? Compare Early Choi material of Hapkido proceeding from Kim, Moo Woong and that proceeding from Ji Han Jae. Both are Hapkido approaches. Want to compare TKD, try ITF and WTF.
Lastly, there is SO MUCH stuff out on the Internet I am wondering why you are taking time to ask what has been explained and re-explained many, many times. If you are seriously interested in either TKD or HKD how about doing some grunt-work and getting some background information first and then bringing THAT to the table for discussion. Dr He-Young Kimms' book, "HAPKIDO" and "HAPKIDO II" are both excellent resources. Myung Kwang Sik wrote one of the first English-language books on Hapkido and General Choi wrote an exhaustive series on the art including his admonition to practitioners that they avail themselves of Hapkido to bolster the failings of TKD in the SD dept.
I guess I am wondering, if your question is important enough to enter into an international venue such as this, how much you are willing to look for an answer and how much you are asking to have things spoonfed to you? Thoughts?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I may off-base here but I think a full listing can be found on the same site as the complete catalog of Chinese Boxing strikes, the Unabridged Listing of Wrestling Grapples, The Offical Compendium of White Sox Bat Swings and the Great Book Steeler Interceptions.
Front kick
chop (roundhouse) kick
side kick
advancing side
back kick
spinning back kick
antari (inside crescent kick)
bakantari (outside crescent kick)
instep kick
chin kick
dora antari (jumping, spinning inside crescent kick)
hi spin kick
lo spin kick
hi-lo spin kick
jump front
double front
butterfly
jump chop
jump side
jump back
jump spin 360 degrees
jump spin 540 degrees
jump antari
jump bakantari
jump split kick
advancing dorantari
Multiple kicking is drilled, standing, reverse.
The real talents perform some of these kicks in the air, upside down.
Then you must be able to perform 8 successive kicks, each a different kind, alternating legs and all above the waist inside of 3 seconds.
Just to name a few. Is that enough for you?
chop (roundhouse) kick
side kick
advancing side
back kick
spinning back kick
antari (inside crescent kick)
bakantari (outside crescent kick)
instep kick
chin kick
dora antari (jumping, spinning inside crescent kick)
hi spin kick
lo spin kick
hi-lo spin kick
jump front
double front
butterfly
jump chop
jump side
jump back
jump spin 360 degrees
jump spin 540 degrees
jump antari
jump bakantari
jump split kick
advancing dorantari
Multiple kicking is drilled, standing, reverse.
The real talents perform some of these kicks in the air, upside down.
Then you must be able to perform 8 successive kicks, each a different kind, alternating legs and all above the waist inside of 3 seconds.
Just to name a few. Is that enough for you?
OP
TKD USA
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #5
Um, thanks Shesulsa.
OP
TKD USA
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #6
Wow good thing I can take criticism.glad2bhere said:
Bob D.
Green Belt
glad2bhere said:
Bruce, Although I know what your trying to say, lets agree that there is an art being taught in the US for the last 40 years called Hwa Rang Do. The fact that the historic link to Hwarang groups of ancient Silla is made up does not change the fact that it is as legit an art as any other. It is a boring and meaningless subject at this point.
The kicks I was taught and that Bob Duggan refers to on his web site are infact unique to Lee Joo Song. According to Bob Duggan, in the US, no other arts or Koreans were kicking like that in the 60's, and 70's. He was in a good position to know as he was one of the founders of Aspen Academy of Martial Arts and was exposed to most of the top martial artists and styles in America at the time.
Where Lee Joo Sang learned from is a good question. Do you know any active teachers that desended from Mo-hyung Kim? (Moo-Woong, Kim)
Regards, Bob
Note: I've studied kicks of Bang Soo Han, his top instructors and other Korean Kwan Jang Nims (mostly Je Han Jae desendants). All of thier kicking is totally different from what I learned.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dr. Kimm lists at least five people proceeding from Kim Moo-woong. Lee Han-chul is in South America, and Kim Woo Tak is in Canada. Huh Il Woong is in Seoul Korea and so is Na Han Dong. Of Course Lee Joo Bang is in California as is Shin Dong-ki. Now, Dr. Kimms' book was copyrighted in 1991 so there may have been some changes since it was first published. BTW: There was also an opportunity for cross-pollination between Kims' school and the material of In Hyuk Suh in that Suh frequented Kims' school during the time Kim was after in the Korean military doing his service.
As far as someone doing some extraordinarily unique kicking I cite Kim Moo Woong as unique only because his approach to kicking mandated that the kick, in and of itself, is intended as a destructive force, while a number of other Hapkido practitioners view kicks as adjuncts to grappling. Bong Soo Han made a name for himself on the silver screen and I don't doubt that adds some additional magnetism to his reputation. By extension, then, just about anything he might do would automatically be viewed as exceptional. From THAT point of view, however, we step across the line into personality worship in which case we will have the KSW people bragging on In Hyuk Suh, the Sin Mu people bragging on Ji Han Jae and Pelligrinis' people bragging on him. Last time I checked it was the person that made the art, not the other way around. But, getting back to the original question, if somebody wants to fill-up bandwidth asking for answers to questions that could be resolved simply by pulling a book out of the library, who am I to rain on their parade. Everybody needs a hobby, right? :idunno:
Best Wishes,
Bruce
As far as someone doing some extraordinarily unique kicking I cite Kim Moo Woong as unique only because his approach to kicking mandated that the kick, in and of itself, is intended as a destructive force, while a number of other Hapkido practitioners view kicks as adjuncts to grappling. Bong Soo Han made a name for himself on the silver screen and I don't doubt that adds some additional magnetism to his reputation. By extension, then, just about anything he might do would automatically be viewed as exceptional. From THAT point of view, however, we step across the line into personality worship in which case we will have the KSW people bragging on In Hyuk Suh, the Sin Mu people bragging on Ji Han Jae and Pelligrinis' people bragging on him. Last time I checked it was the person that made the art, not the other way around. But, getting back to the original question, if somebody wants to fill-up bandwidth asking for answers to questions that could be resolved simply by pulling a book out of the library, who am I to rain on their parade. Everybody needs a hobby, right? :idunno:
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I suppose it would be appropriate to ask, what exactly do you mean by the "full cycle" of HRD kicks?TKD USA said:
I listed some of the kicks we do... kind of a "duh" answer, but...what exactly are you looking for? Where they came from? How they developed? Who brought them into the art?
I've lived a sheltered life, so please excuse my ignorance in asking.
OP
TKD USA
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #10
Well you know how on some TKD sites they show different kicks and how to execute them, that is sorta what I mean.
Well, no, I really don't ... I don't do much research on TKD, but I think I'll start now.
And as for your question, as Mr. Donnelly has stated, the spinning heel kick is discussed on Bob Duggan's website, www.hwarang.org. I haven't seen anything like what I think you're describing on the WHRDA website and, though I haven't looked at Michael DeAlba's site thoroughly yet, I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for on the internet... try finding out in person at a non-WHRDA school.
And as for your question, as Mr. Donnelly has stated, the spinning heel kick is discussed on Bob Duggan's website, www.hwarang.org. I haven't seen anything like what I think you're describing on the WHRDA website and, though I haven't looked at Michael DeAlba's site thoroughly yet, I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for on the internet... try finding out in person at a non-WHRDA school.
