How effective is Japanese Ju Jitsu, or judo moves ‪ work on a big person?

Discussion in 'Japanese Martial Arts - General' started by moonhill99, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. Mephisto

    Mephisto Black Belt

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    It's common in martial arts demonstrations for the instructor to pick out a big guy to prove their skill. Sometimes the instructor will strike and hit big guys who stand their and do nothing, sometimes they'll lock or throw them. It's not impressive imo to toss around or strike a compliant uke. It's impressive to the untrained audience but that's it. You're right though, a diminutive woman will probably never be able to naturally build an intimidating physique.

    Its really just a thought on my part that training time may be better spent lifting weights and getting bigger. I'm a male and was thinking about myself in this example. If I'd have spent the time I do training focusing on getting big I'd probably impress a lot more people. Not that everyone wants to be big, I dont.
     
  2. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    I feel you may have missed the point. In training when a new guy comes to trial our lessons it is common for the big strong guys to believe that they can out-muscle the smaller ones. I never hit them but if I can't make the technique work on them softly and slowly why would they stay? The whole point of using jujutsu is so the smaller guys can match it with the bigger, stronger ones. Being bigger and stronger doesn't stop the technique working, if you are doing it right.

    By the same token, I was at a pressure point seminar once where a reasonably big time instructor kept pulling me out of the audience. Not one of his techniques worked, until he hit my outer thigh with a full force knee that I wasn't expecting. Needless to say, I wouldn't recommend his seminars to anyone. I actually found out later that most of his 'qualifications' are bogus.
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    10345983_334576736695284_8553868564811783176_n.jpg
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

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    Brazilian Juijitsu works on bigger people;


     
  5. Drose427

    Drose427 3rd Black Belt

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    Exactly,
    Not even a little of mucling will work, the bigger guy wont move at all many times. You need proper technique
    Well then its a shame OP never asked about BJJ
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
  6. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

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    JJJ, Judo and Bjj are all very closely related.
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    165 lb vs. 240 lb. You can clearly see the "shaking" principle is applied at 1.31.

     
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  8. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

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    That's awesome stuff.:)
     
  9. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Sure… but wasn't part of the question, and hasn't been a part of any of the OPs recent threads, all of which are centred (rightly or wrongly) around Japanese Jujutsu almost exclusively. Perhaps you can let a few go without having to hawk your art, yeah? Especially as, well, BJJ is kinda the restrained, safe version of the restrained, safe kids version of the restrained, safe version of the actual stuff… ha!
     
  10. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

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    Actually Bjj is more like an unrestrained form of Kodokan Judo. Basically its a continuation of the early years of Judo where Judoka would travel the world and fight other styles, and bring new techniques back to the Kodokan for implementation. Judo stopped doing that, while Bjj never stopped doing it, and is continuing to evolve because of it. So I definitely wouldn't consider Bjj a more restrained form of Judo, quite the opposite in fact.

    As to the OP, Judo and Bjj are related, sister arts. If someone asked me if Judo worked, I would show them a Bjj clip, and vice versa. There simply isn't a lot of footage showing Judoka fighting against opponents a lot bigger than they are, but there's plenty of Bjj footage showcasing Bjj fighters using what is funadmentally no-gi Judo Newaza against larger opponents. So I felt that it fit the topic.

    Also so many Judokas and Jiujiteiros cross train that the OP would be hard-pressed to find an American Judoka who didn't have some level of Bjj training.
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    To be a little more serious, and less tongue in cheek, BJJ has continued to evolve into a higher level of specialisation to a particular context… to be less serious, yeah, it's grown men playing at early Kosen Judo (High School Judo), which focused on ground work instead of throws because it was safer… you know, kids stuff for safety… ha!

    More's the pity, to my mind. But frankly, if someone asked if Judo worked, showing a clip of a different (albeit related) art I'd consider rather pointless… it'd be like asking if cross-bow hunting was easy, and showing some archery competition to demonstrate. If the question is about Judo, answer about Judo… if it's about Japanese Jujutsu, answer about that. If it's related grappling-based arts, by all means bring up BJJ… but recognise that you risk coming across as a zealot by bringing it up every possible opportunity like this… which typically is more likely to turn people off both your ideas and your posts by expecting such single-track posts.
     
  12. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

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    Again, I disagree. Traditional Bjj actively incorporated Judo and wrestling takedowns and throws, and more modern Bjj is still actively incorporating takedowns and throws from wrestling, Judo, and old school Bjj. Traditional Bjj taught striking too, as clearly shown in their various NHB fights.

    Well again, its quite difficult to find a clip of a Judoka taking down a larger opponent. If Bjj is as many Judoka like to claim "Basically Just Judo", I don't see the problem. :)
     
  13. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    1) These throws and takedowns absolutely can be used effectively against larger opponents.
    2) That doesn't mean it's easy. Throwing a smaller opponent is easier than throwing a larger one. If you want to be successful against larger opponents, then you need a substantial advantage in skill.
    3) If the larger opponent also has skill and training, then it becomes even harder and you need a major advantage in skill and would be well served to have speed and pound-per-pound strength on your side as well.
    4) Points 1-3 apply just as much to the idea of knocking out a larger opponent using a striking art.
     
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