How appliable is aikido for self-defense?

[Jenna]

Segal is a strange guy.

haha maybe.. though this poster he or she say long as it is not Seagal.. "aikido is fine" so I just like to ask what make Aikido "fine" for this poster.. since without elaboration that kind of sound to me like yet more banal commentary of the uninformed, no?

 

[Hanzou]

I mean, why do Bas and Randy want to fight him? He's a fat old man, well past his prime. Whether his aikido is still good or not, a younger martial athlete who fought professionally, a lot, is going to have a severe advantage. There's little doubt about the outcome, and even so would do nothing to establish whether Segal's aikido is legit or not, even when he loses.

What caused these guys to even make the suggestion? I can't imagine what they think they have to gain. If they win, well they beat up a fat old man, well past his prime. If they lose, they lost to a fat old man, well past his prime. Either way, their reputation is stained. I guess I don't get it.

Couture joked that he was willing to come out of retirement to fight Segal because the latter had popped up helping Anderson prepare for a fight. Segal took it seriously and said that he was willing to fight Couture, but only if no witnesses were present. Couture's response;

"I'm the one that started the joke as an off-handed comment I made to Jay Glazer - that I'd only come out of retirement if it were to fight Seagal. Obviously now somebody has talked to him about it and it has gotten some legs. I'm not surprised that he wants to do it in private, remote location where nobody could see it happen. Obviously I intended it as a joke. I don't think it would really happen."

Couture to Seagal: Calm down, bro

As for Bas, he said on one of his old shows that he would take Segal by the ponytail and spin him around before beating the crap out of him. No response from Segal on that one.

 

[Flying Crane]

Couture joked that he was willing to come out of retirement to fight Segal because the latter had popped up helping Anderson prepare for a fight. Segal took it seriously and said that he was willing to fight Couture, but only if no witnesses were present. Couture's response;



Couture to Seagal: Calm down, bro

As for Bas, he said on one of his old shows that he would take Segal by the ponytail and spin him around before beating the crap out of him. No response from Segal on that one.

Got it, thx. That seems more sensible, that it grew out of a joke and not a genuine challenge.

 

[Steve]

I mean, why do Bas and Randy want to fight him? He's a fat old man, well past his prime. Whether his aikido is still good or not, a younger martial athlete who fought professionally, a lot, is going to have a severe advantage. There's little doubt about the outcome, and even so would do nothing to establish whether Segal's aikido is legit or not, even when he loses.

What caused these guys to even make the suggestion? I can't imagine what they think they have to gain. If they win, well they beat up a fat old man, well past his prime. If they lose, they lost to a fat old man, well past his prime. Either way, their reputation is stained. I guess I don't get it.

They're old and fat, too. And I think they probably figure they can take him.

 

[pgsmith]

He's a fat old man, well past his prime.

I thought you were talking about me at first ...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I thought you were talking about me at first ...

Who says he wasn't?

 

[Hanzou]

While the entire Segal thing is amusing, it would be nice to see Aikido being utilized in a more martial context. Roy Dean has created an interesting synthesis of Aikido and Bjj, but even with his stuff it appears that Bjj carries the load for the majority of his martial applications.

Just once I'd just like to see an Aikidoka stand in the center of a ring and make a guy tap from a lock.

 

[drop bear]

While the entire Segal thing is amusing, it would be nice to see Aikido being utilized in a more martial context. Roy Dean has created an interesting synthesis of Aikido and Bjj, but even with his stuff it appears that Bjj carries the load for the majority of his martial applications.

Just once I'd just like to see an Aikidoka stand in the center of a ring and make a guy tap from a lock.

You would do akido and wrestling. If you wanted to make a neater mix. they have more of a similar dynamic.

there is much more arm isolation. with arm drags and underhooks. and back control i think gells more with their concept.

here we go. wrestlings wrist lock throw.

 

[Hanzou]

You would do akido and wrestling. If you wanted to make a neater mix. they have more of a similar dynamic.

there is much more arm isolation. with arm drags and underhooks. and back control i think gells more with their concept.

here we go. wrestlings wrist lock throw.

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I also think Aikido with the no-gi Judo stuff emerging in MMA circles would be a good mix as well.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I also think Aikido with the no-gi Judo stuff emerging in MMA circles would be a good mix as well.

yeah. that would work as well.

 

[Flying Crane]

They're old and fat, too. And I think they probably figure they can take him.

Probably not as old and fat as Segal. I bet he's taller, tho.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Probably not as old and fat as Segal. I bet he's taller, tho.

Randy Couture 53 vs Steven Seagal 64...Seagal is 2 inches taller

or

Bas Rutten 51 vs Steven Seagal 64....Seagal is 3 inches taller

put them all back in time to roughly the same age and condition... meaning Seagal in the mid to late 80s then maybe. But today.... you are absolutely right

With that type of logic you could also have proven Muhammad Ali (at 64) was a horrible fighter too

 

[drop bear]

Randy Couture 53 vs Steven Seagal 64...Seagal is 2 inches taller

or

Bas Rutten 51 vs Steven Seagal 64....Seagal is 3 inches taller

put them all back in time to roughly the same age and condition... meaning Seagal in the mid to late 80s then maybe. But today.... you are absolutely right

With that type of logic you could also have proven Muhammad Ali (at 64) was a horrible fighter too

Randy and baz have a bit better pedagree than segal. Which seem to consist of domestic assult charges.

 

[Hanzou]

Randy Couture 53 vs Steven Seagal 64...Seagal is 2 inches taller

or

Bas Rutten 51 vs Steven Seagal 64....Seagal is 3 inches taller

put them all back in time to roughly the same age and condition... meaning Seagal in the mid to late 80s then maybe. But today.... you are absolutely right

With that type of logic you could also have proven Muhammad Ali (at 64) was a horrible fighter too

I always figured that size and strength don't matter much to an Aikido master like Segal.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I always figured that size and strength don't matter much to an Aikido master like Segal.

age is the issue, that is the point being made, size was a side issue and strength was not part of it

Like I implied, put a younger fighter (even 10 years younger) against Muhammad Ali at 64 and judge him based on that and you could say he was a bad fighter too

 

[Flying Crane]

Randy Couture 53 vs Steven Seagal 64...Seagal is 2 inches taller

or

Bas Rutten 51 vs Steven Seagal 64....Seagal is 3 inches taller

put them all back in time to roughly the same age and condition... meaning Seagal in the mid to late 80s then maybe. But today.... you are absolutely right

With that type of logic you could also have proven Muhammad Ali (at 64) was a horrible fighter too

Yeah, there is a big difference in age when you jump from 51 or 53 to 64.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Huge difference!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Anyways, hypothetical stuff like this is ridiculous. Seagal is not going to fight anyone and the guys spouting off against a man past his prime, well they know that they are not going to fight him either. Just kind've punkish...

 

[JP3]

We don't use many Japanese terms, so I'm not at all sure what your first sentence is about. If you translate those for me, maybe I can clear up what I said earlier.

The second paragraph, I agree with entirely. That's where the "void" is. If the attacker pulls back hard, he falls hard. If he stiffens his arm he opens up other techniques, and I have more leverage for some moves (and joint locks generally hurt worse/become more destructive).

Jerry, no worries. Sometimes the Japanese, with its layered meanings, actually works better, sometimes not.

Only three fundamental wrist locking "positions," if you will.

Gaeshi (typically associated in wristlocking techniques with kote-gaeshi) can mean, depending on who is doing the translation as "reverse" or "turn."

A very simple way to see/feel kotegaeshi happening to you is to extend your right arm out in front of you, palm up. Keep the palm up and then bend the right elbow so your right hand gets closer, still palm up. Then reach across and grasp the right hand with the left one, fingers going around the back of the hand and grasping the base of the right thumb, and then attempt to twist your right hand at the wrist to get your own thumb to point down at the ground. That's a simnple kote-gaeshi.

Hineri is the rotational opposite of kotegaeshi.

Put your right arm out in front of you, palm up again to start. Then rotate the right hand counterclockwise so that the right thumb first points left, then down, then try to keep rotating it until you have to let the elbow bend to allow it to get any farther. Once you get it so that your right thumb is again pointing to the right, you've most likely got a bent right elbow (unless you're really flexible at shoulder and wrist). Now, imagine Segal grabbing your now downwards-pointing fingers at their base (which includes the hand itself), and both lifting and pushing the hand back into your body (consider it a scene from... I think it was Hard to Kill, he's making a mean face while he's doing it). This interesting sensation is kote-hineri.

Mawashi is actually a compression lock on the wrist.

Same start position, right hand out in front of you, palm up. Rotate it over until the palm is now facing down. Keeping the palm facing directly downwards, pull the hand back by bending the elbow, right hand at shoulder height in front of the right shoulder. Reach across the body and put your left palm on the back of your right hand, at the knuckles. Don't let your elbow go anywhere so you can feel the compression start to get uncomfortable as you press firmly downwards... mawashi.

All three fundamental locking positions can be achieved in a myriad of ways, front, back, this side, that side, inside to out, vice-versa, but the basic "locked" positions of the wrist are anatomically defined. And of course, you can vary them to get a combination of effect as well.

I'm sure you guys do this stuff, it's just names. We could call it Smooth Orange Peel Lock if we wanted. it's just that nobody else would know what we were talking about. For instance, you used the word "void" above where I generally say "hole." Judo background, talking about holes. So, when students are having a hard time with a wrist lock/submission, I usually start out the conversation with something like, "Well... which lock is the end of that, what you are going for?" The proper response from my people is one of the three words above, gaeshi, hineri or mawashi.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I always figured that size and strength don't matter much to an Aikido master like Segal.

The size of your opponent matters less than your own girth, in some cases.