Homeowner 2, Scumbags 0

[Deaf Smith]

Never say never (as for warning shots) but the biggest problems with warning shots are:

1. Where does the bullet go? This can be considered a form of reckless endangerment.

2. Did the 'warnee' know it was a warning or will they fire back at the 'warneer'?

3. You just lost 1/5th or more of your ammo supply.

As Massad Ayoob points out in his writings, the warning shot as to land somewhere! If you shoot into the ground it can ricochet (and it has happened and struck innocent people.) If you fire into the air... well what goes up, must come down.

Mas is of the opinion that IF you must for some reason fire a warning shot, do so into something that will stop the bullet safely. This will a) keep from endangering the community, and b) PROVE it was a warning shot.

Also, he feels that firing a warning shot may be repaid by a shot from the attacker, who will tell the police you shot at them (and hence the safe place to fire the shot.)

And I agree with Mas! Let's just say warning shots are very rare and risky uses of your defensive weapon.

Deaf

 

[Carol]

And the good Colonel too.

Rule #4...

 

[sgtmac_46]

Never say never (as for warning shots) but the biggest problems with warning shots are:

1. Where does the bullet go? This can be considered a form of reckless endangerment.

2. Did the 'warnee' know it was a warning or will they fire back at the 'warneer'?

3. You just lost 1/5th or more of your ammo supply.

As Massad Ayoob points out in his writings, the warning shot as to land somewhere! If you shoot into the ground it can ricochet (and it has happened and struck innocent people.) If you fire into the air... well what goes up, must come down.

Mas is of the opinion that IF you must for some reason fire a warning shot, do so into something that will stop the bullet safely. This will a) keep from endangering the community, and b) PROVE it was a warning shot.

Also, he feels that firing a warning shot may be repaid by a shot from the attacker, who will tell the police you shot at them (and hence the safe place to fire the shot.)

And I agree with Mas! Let's just say warning shots are very rare and risky uses of your defensive weapon.

Deaf

If me standing there with the gun isn't warning enough, he's too stupid to live.

 

[Carol]

If me standing there with the gun isn't warning enough, he's too stupid to live.

Or he was a Japanese high school student quite literally lost in a foreign land, experiencing Halloween Night for the first time...and not understanding what to expect.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Or he was a Japanese high school student quite literally lost in a foreign land, experiencing Halloween Night for the first time...and not understanding what to expect.

If he's just standing there in the yard, he's not going to get shot........what's going to get someone shot, is something they damn well know they shouldn't be doing in any language or land.

The worst someone is going to get for trespassing is a swift kick in the seat of the pants toward the roadway.........physical 'sign language' is, likewise, multi-lingual.......a kick in the seat of the pants is the universal language.

And my statement was directed toward 'warning shots'.......which are dangerous and redundant.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I can understand what Ayoob is saying, but I personally am gonna stick with the thinking that if you are not justified in shooting to stop the threat you are not justified in shooting *AT ALL*.

There's another thing:

It ties into what Mac was saying in that a person drawing and aiming a firearm at you is *universal sign language* for "You are screwing up badly enough to put me in fear of my life, stop it now".

But think about this too for a second:

When a police officer draws his/her sidearm, people around the officer are not afraid of the OFFICER--they are afraid of whatever made the officer draw in the first place and they get the hell outta Dodge.

When a private citizen draws his/her sidearm, those around him/her, unless they have personally WITNESSED whatever made the citizen draw, are more likely to misunderstand the citizen's actions as a threat against them and may even dogpile the citizen.

As a direct result, it will oftentimes behoove armed citizens to wait until the last possible moment before drawing, which, consequently will most likely not allow time for "warning shots".

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ayoob, in his books, says 'never say never'. Now he does not like warning shots, he discourages warning shots, feels if you have to shoot, shoot to stop, but....

He feels that if you HAVE to do it, shoot into a safe backstop. And remember that the shot can be construted as deadly force and the other side might fire back thinking you are shooting at them.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

I can understand what Ayoob is saying, but I personally am gonna stick with the thinking that if you are not justified in shooting to stop the threat you are not justified in shooting *AT ALL*.

There's another thing:

It ties into what Mac was saying in that a person drawing and aiming a firearm at you is *universal sign language* for "You are screwing up badly enough to put me in fear of my life, stop it now".

But think about this too for a second:

When a police officer draws his/her sidearm, people around the officer are not afraid of the OFFICER--they are afraid of whatever made the officer draw in the first place and they get the hell outta Dodge.

When a private citizen draws his/her sidearm, those around him/her, unless they have personally WITNESSED whatever made the citizen draw, are more likely to misunderstand the citizen's actions as a threat against them and may even dogpile the citizen.

As a direct result, it will oftentimes behoove armed citizens to wait until the last possible moment before drawing, which, consequently will most likely not allow time for "warning shots".

It's a very good point that needs to be addressed........even more important than the citizens, are the responding officers creeping up that you don't see........a list of several off-duty officers killed and wounded by uniformed officers during these type of incidents is unfortunately easily assembled to make this point.

One should do whatever one is going to do with as little idle time spent standing around with the gun in their hand as possible.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Ayoob, in his books, says 'never say never'. Now he does not like warning shots, he discourages warning shots, feels if you have to shoot, shoot to stop, but....

He feels that if you HAVE to do it, shoot into a safe backstop. And remember that the shot can be construted as deadly force and the other side might fire back thinking you are shooting at them.

Deaf

It's really an example of saying that there are very few things we can say to 'NEVER EVER' do........but this is one you should probably never do, without a damn good and specific logical reason.

Guard towers in prisons using warning shots to break up disturbances, firing rounds in to the ground between groups of combatants to warn them to stay apart before lethal force is used.......again, a rare exception, but an exception none-the-less.