Hojo Undo and Kotekitae in Shotokan

[chrispillertkd]

I was wondering if anyone here could give me some information regarding the prevelance of both Hojo Undo and Kotekitae in Shotokan. I practice Taekwon-Do and Gen. Choi's encyclopedia (really all of the books he wrote since 1965) devote a good portion of their time to training aids (Dallyon Goo in Korean) and what are referred to as "knocking exercises" which are to condition the forearms and knife-hands for blocking. I always assumed that the devices used for Dallyon Goo and the knocking exercises were lifted from Gen. Choi's training days in Shotokan but a recent thread that mentioned GM Nam Suk Lee of the Chang Moo Kwan (a TKD school with links to Shudokan karate as well as Chun Fa) got me wondering.

The Hojo Undo implements I am interested about include:

Nigiri Game (gripping jars; Danji in Korean)
Jari Bako (sand box; dallyon tong in Korean)
Kakite Bikei (blocking post; makgi dae in Korean)
Makiwara (striking post; dallyon goo in Korean)

Gen. Choi actually has directions for making - and using - several types of Makiwara/dallyon goo in his books. These include a fixed type used outside or in a training hall, a moveable type that uses a wooden platform to which the striking post is affixed, a portable type which consists solely of the pad affixed to a piece of spring reinforced board about 10" long that can be hung on a wall and a mounted type, which is used for training the knife-hand, back fist, side fist and back heel through downward strikes and kicks. He also talks about different kinds of pads that can be used on the striking posts (rope and straw or a sponge pad covered with canvas), how both hands and feet (and elbows) can be conditioned, etc.

I have been unable to identify a Japanese/Okinawan equivalent of one of the training implements Gen. Choi discusses. He calls it a Forging Pendulum (dallyon gune) and is made of a bundle of bamboo or light wood about 2 meters long and 15 centimeters in diameter. The length of the pendulum is wrapped in straw rope and suspended horizontally from the ceiling indoors (or from trees outdoors). It is used to practice the timing of blocks, jumping (one can jump over it), jump kicks, and toughening the hands and feet.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this in Shotokan or any other karate style?

As for Kotekitae, Gen. Choi includes exercises to toughen the forearms and knife-hands by knocking them against those of a practice partner, as well as solo exercises for the same result. Is this type of conditioning practiced in Shotokan or is it limited to styles that are more "Okinawan-y"?

Also, is Kotekitae limited to forearm conditioning or does it include aspects for conditioning other body parts? I'm curious about that since I've seen people discuss it in various ways. I also know some Taekwon-Do instructors who include conditioning of the abodomen, calf and ball of the foot with partners.

Thanks in advance for any insight people can give me.

Pax,

Chris

 

[dancingalone]

I have been unable to identify a Japanese/Okinawan equivalent of one of the training implements Gen. Choi discusses. He calls it a Forging Pendulum (dallyon gune) and is made of a bundle of bamboo or light wood about 2 meters long and 15 centimeters in diameter. The length of the pendulum is wrapped in straw rope and suspended horizontally from the ceiling indoors (or from trees outdoors). It is used to practice the timing of blocks, jumping (one can jump over it), jump kicks, and toughening the hands and feet.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this in Shotokan or any other karate style?

This doesn't mean anything significant, but I can tell you on an anecdote basis that we've never had such a practice tool at my teacher's dojo, and he's an Okinawan who trained at the Jundokan in the sixties. We did regularly train with the jars and the chi shi and the weighted sandals. Of course makiwara was a staple.

As for Kotekitae, Gen. Choi includes exercises to toughen the forearms and knife-hands by knocking them against those of a practice partner, as well as solo exercises for the same result. Is this type of conditioning practiced in Shotokan or is it limited to styles that are more "Okinawan-y"?

It is known in Shotokan. My friends who are active in the SKIF organization occasionally bang forearms with each other, but it is not as frequently done as perhaps in some other styles/dojo.

Also, is Kotekitae limited to forearm conditioning or does it include aspects for conditioning other body parts? I'm curious about that since I've seen people discuss it in various ways. I also know some Taekwon-Do instructors who include conditioning of the abodomen, calf and ball of the foot with partners.

In Goju-ryu aside from the partner arm and hand banging, we also trade instep roundhouse kicks (really more like a front scoop kick executed diagonally if we're being 'traditional') to the inside and outside thighs as well as the calves.

Also there is occasional light to medium intensity punching to the tightened abdomen as the student performs Sanchin kata along with the usual shime checks for proper posture and tension. I doubt it is a regular practice now in the US, but when I was coming up the ranks, shime could be fairly intense during belt exams or during hard practice nights. You'd leave the dojo with some pain and bruises but it is understood that you were conditioning both the body and mind.

 

[punisher73]

I would recommend the book "The Art of Hojo Undo: Power Training for Karate" by Michael Clarke.
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Hojo-Undo...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294319261&sr=1-1

He gives alot of historical references to Hojo Undo including some Chinese that predate okinawan karate. His main focus is Hojo Undo as it is practiced in Goju Ryu, but he does talk some about when Funakoshi brought karate to Japan and early references in early karate books.

To sum it up, the only real tool from Hojo Undo that survived in Japan was the Makiwara (some still use the other methods, but as a whole most only use the makiwara). Gen. Choi probably could have picked up their usage almost anywhere or seen them being used and incorporated it into his teachings.

 

[chrispillertkd]

It is known in Shotokan. My friends who are active in the SKIF organization occasionally bang forearms with each other, but it is not as frequently done as perhaps in some other styles/dojo.

Interesting. As I said, GM Nam Suk Lee of the Chang Moo Kwan also taught this exercise and my instructor has roots to both the CMK and the ITF. Probably just an overlap of exercises common to different styles since the Chang Moo Kwan didn't come out of Shotokan (which has roots in Shorin Ryu, I think, not Shotokan). Our own school tends to do more of the knife-hand conditioning version of the exercises and reserves the forearm "knocking" for more advanced students, which is kind of too bad but understandable I guess.

Also there is occasional light to medium intensity punching to the tightened abdomen as the student performs Sanchin kata along with the usual shime checks for proper posture and tension. I doubt it is a regular practice now in the US, but when I was coming up the ranks, shime could be fairly intense during belt exams or during hard practice nights. You'd leave the dojo with some pain and bruises but it is understood that you were conditioning both the body and mind.

Heh, I got to help "demonstrate" a similar type of conditioning during a seminar a few years ago using front snap kicks. When I changed to go to dinner that night I noticed I had several bruises on my abs in the shape of the instructor's ball of the foot. It didn't really hurt much but boy it got you to tighten your muscles.

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

I would recommend the book "The Art of Hojo Undo: Power Training for Karate" by Michael Clarke.
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Hojo-Undo...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294319261&sr=1-1

I've read it. A very good book and one of the places I did a bit of research comparing the training implements Gen. Choi suggests to thoseof karate. Its focus on Okinawan styles as opposed to being strictly about Shotokan was got me interested in this topic since there was more overlap than I would have (perhaps mistakenly) expected.

He gives alot of historical references to Hojo Undo including some Chinese that predate okinawan karate. His main focus is Hojo Undo as it is practiced in Goju Ryu, but he does talk some about when Funakoshi brought karate to Japan and early references in early karate books.

I'll have to go back and reread this section and see if he mentions if anything like the "blockoing apparatus" gripping jars, etc. were exported to Japan by Funakoshi.

To sum it up, the only real tool from Hojo Undo that survived in Japan was the Makiwara (some still use the other methods, but as a whole most only use the makiwara). Gen. Choi probably could have picked up their usage almost anywhere or seen them being used and incorporated it into his teachings.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. If only the makiwara was used in Japan then ow could Gen. Choi have gotten the info about the other implements? Or do you mean Funakoshi introduced the other tools as well but only the use of the makiwara enjoyed wide spread popularity?

Pax,

Chris

 

[punisher73]

I'm not sure I'm following you here. If only the makiwara was used in Japan then ow could Gen. Choi have gotten the info about the other implements? Or do you mean Funakoshi introduced the other tools as well but only the use of the makiwara enjoyed wide spread popularity?

Pax,

Chris

I meant that only the makiwara enjoyed the wide spread popularity. Some of the early karate texts mentioned the other devices, so they were known at the time.

 

[elder999]

I have been unable to identify a Japanese/Okinawan equivalent of one of the training implements Gen. Choi discusses. He calls it a Forging Pendulum (dallyon gune) and is made of a bundle of bamboo or light wood about 2 meters long and 15 centimeters in diameter. The length of the pendulum is wrapped in straw rope and suspended horizontally from the ceiling indoors (or from trees outdoors). It is used to practice the timing of blocks, jumping (one can jump over it), jump kicks, and toughening the hands and feet.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this in Shotokan or any other karate style?

It sounds like the straw sheaf makiwara used in kyokushin at one time.