Hillary - the wrong person for any American office

[Big Don]

I think we can start by reducing the military budget by 60%. We would still fund our military with more money than any nation on the planet. I bet that would give you a lot of your tax money back.

Oh, so you want to start by putting people out of work? How progressive of you.

Elimante NAFTA and all the free trade agreements. And stop corporations from deducting taxes paid overseas from the burdens owed in this country. You would quickly see an end to undocumented workers coming to this country; because they would have jobs in their own countries.

:bs1:There were millions of illegals YEARS before there was NAFTA. One need look no farther than the Simpson-Mazzoli Bill of 1986.

And, with all the money we'd save, we be able to join England, and all the other civilized nations in the western world, and have universal health care for our citizens.

If this is an indication of civilization, you can keep it.

 

[Big Don]

She wants to take more money out of the working citizen's paycheck.

In here goal to transform America into communist Russia, socializing everything from food to medicine, here's the latest:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31

"I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Apparently, there are those who don't value freedom.

 

[Wild Bill]

Is America then a 'me' society? Where the motto is what's mine is mine and bugger the rest of you"?

That has always been my attitude. I am not responsible for anyone else's life. People who can't take care of themselves should die and leave more room and air for those of us who can take care of ourselves. What's mine is mine. No one, not even the government has the right to take it from me with out my permission. That goes for my money, time, talent, physical body, or anything I create. When you take something that is mine without my permission it's called stealing. If that attitude makes me uncivilized then you can call me Wild Bill the barbarian.

 

[Archangel M]

What's mine is mine. No one, not even the government has the right to take it from me with out my permission. That goes for my money, time, talent, physical body, or anything I create.

Where have I heard that before? Must have been back around 1776.

 

[michaeledward]

Where have I heard that before? Must have been back around 1776.

I am quite certain you are incorrect. The quote I remember from 1776 went something like ...

We must surely hang together, or else we will all hang separately. - B. Franklin.

 

[Archangel M]

Nothin like taking a quote about standing up against oppression together and turning into a socialist statement.

Everything viewed through lib colored glasses huh?

 

[Makalakumu]

Oh, so you want to start by putting people out of work? How progressive of you.

I would slash military spending by 75% or more. Get rid of the CIA, the NSA and really focus on defending our country. If this puts people out of work, well then maybe people need to make better choices for their lives. A person who makes an oath to protect our country and then goes overseas to defend Pax Americana is wasting their life and the taxpayer's money, IMHO.

 

[Archangel M]

An insult to every person who ever wore the uniform. I wish I could put you on my ignore list.

 

[Sukerkin]

The Ignore List is a last resort to edit out those that are being malicious.

Upnorth is merely expressing his viewpoint (one that is not without logical merit) and a base-level, knee-jerk, response is not a valid response to his post.

Blind patriotism is by no means a good cloth for any member of a society to swathe himself in. You chaps have the advantage of being citizens rather than subjects, a very big difference. Don't waste it.

 

[Makalakumu]

An insult to every person who ever wore the uniform. I wish I could put you on my ignore list.

You and everyone else want to ignore this, but the problem is that people like me have got a point. Especially as the national debt gets bigger and bigger and the blowback from attempting to maintain Pax Americana becomes more and more of a problem.

I can tell you this, as a citizen of this country right now, if these policies continue, I will not remain a citizen of this country. My children will NOT be saddled with the kind of debt that put bombs and killing over building bridges and taking care of people.

You wish you could ignore me right now because this idea pisses you off, but as a fellow citizen, I can tell you right now, you can't even imagine how wrong your blind support of the military industrial complex will be. Your children will pay for our collective lack of foresight and our current misdeads.

Your children (not mine) will pay with their money (and possibly their lives) for the way our country abuses a soldiers good intentioned but misplaced oath.

This day of reckoning is not that far off...

The soldier, IMHO, needs to think long and hard about how protecting an oil pipeline in the middle east protects the lives of fellow citizens back home.

 

[Big Don]

I would slash military spending by 75% or more. Get rid of the CIA, the NSA

Yeah, because knowing what your enemies plan to do could never be useful information. I can think of two prominent dates when good intel would have been extremely useful: Dec 6, 1941 and September 10th, 2001.
Having Gorelick's wall between the intelligence and law enforcement communities cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars. If, in light of that, you can see no value in gathering intelligence, then, you, sir, are a fool, and worse.

 

[Big Don]

You and everyone else want to ignore this, but the problem is that people like me have got a point. Especially as the national debt gets bigger and bigger and the blowback from attempting to maintain Pax Americana becomes more and more of a problem.

I can tell you this, as a citizen of this country right now, if these policies continue, I will not remain a citizen of this country. My children will NOT be saddled with the kind of debt that put bombs and killing over building bridges and taking care of people.

You wish you could ignore me right now because this idea pisses you off, but as a fellow citizen, I can tell you right now, you can't even imagine how wrong your blind support of the military industrial complex will be. Your children will pay for our collective lack of foresight and our current misdeads.

Your children (not mine) will pay with their money (and possibly their lives) for the way our country abuses a soldiers good intentioned but misplaced oath.

This day of reckoning is not that far off...

The soldier, IMHO, needs to think long and hard about how protecting an oil pipeline in the middle east protects the lives of fellow citizens back home.

Where is my "Die Hippy Scum" bumper sticker when I need it?

 

[Big Don]

And, with all the money we'd save, we be able to join England, and all the other civilized nations in the western world

Civilized, debatable, 25% Abjectly stupid confirmed.

According to the survey of 3,000 respondents, many believe the inspirational Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi, Cleopatra and the Duke of Wellington are also characters dreamed up for films and books.

Daily Mail article

 

[Makalakumu]

Dec 6, 1941 and September 10th, 2001.

We had good intelligence on both of those days...

 

[Makalakumu]

Where is my "Die Hippy Scum" bumper sticker when I need it?

Probably stuck on your SUV, right next to the gas tank where you pump our soldier's blood...

That's a joke, btw, I don't really think that, but that kind of rhetoric is what people like me, with ideas like I have, get faced with. It's not pretty.

Yet, I really do think that we have a point. We cannot afford the empire we have built. It is bankrupting this country and I am seriously concerned for the future. So concerned, that I'm looking at moving my family out of this country. And that is no joke.

 

[Big Don]

So concerned, that I'm looking at moving my family out of this country. And that is no joke.

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out.

 

[Makalakumu]

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out.

At least I'm doing something about it. Most people just piss and moan and go about their daily lives...sanctimonious as ever. I can say, that on this point, we are in agreement. If you want to pay for this, great! I'm not going to, because I sincerely believe its not worth it. I'm looking at other countries that get 75% of their energy from renewable sources and I just throw my hands us and ask why we even think we are the greatest country in the world. We got some good things going for us and some bad, but that just like everywhere else. The only difference is that the US's bad will be a dandy bill to pay.

Most folks just doing understand what they will have to give up in order to pay down the national debt. 40% of our standard of living...without inflation. Look folks, when this hits, the people who laughed or got pissed and put me on their ignore list, will all be on this bandwagon, but it will be too late.

And I'll be on the beach, with a cup of coffee watching the sunrise, while my former countrymen come to grips with their countries sunset.

 

[Big Don]

At least I'm doing something about it. Most people just piss and moan and go about their daily lives...sanctimonious as ever. I can say, that on this point, we are in agreement. If you want to pay for this, great! I'm not going to, because I sincerely believe its not worth it. I'm looking at other countries that get 75% of their energy from renewable sources and I just throw my hands us and ask why we even think we are the greatest country in the world. We got some good things going for us and some bad, but that just like everywhere else. The only difference is that the US's bad will be a dandy bill to pay.

Most folks just doing understand what they will have to give up in order to pay down the national debt. 40% of our standard of living...without inflation. Look folks, when this hits, the people who laughed or got pissed and put me on their ignore list, will all be on this bandwagon, but it will be too late.

And I'll be on the beach, with a cup of coffee watching the sunrise, while my former countrymen come to grips with their countries sunset.

Just don't be like all those celebs who said they'd leave if Bush was elected and never did. Go, good riddance. Unlike a great many countries, the US doesn't stop people from leaving. Have fun! Forget to write!

 

[Makalakumu]

Just don't be like all those celebs who said they'd leave if Bush was elected and never did. Go, good riddance.

Don't worry about me... I am sincere in my intentions especially for the reasons I stated.

BD, if you actually knew me, you'd be sad to see me go...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mrs. Cllinton (and many of the other self-centered individuals running) have no respect for this country, beyond what riches it puts into their pockets.

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government."

If she, and many others had their way, if the person who spoke those words were alive todaaay, he would currently be in a cell in some undisclosed location enjoying the "its not really torture" activity of water boarding, or some other similar fun.

That was a man who really cared about the country, and saw in his vision just how wrong it is for a corporate state that sends it's poor to die so that the corporation can become richer.

Then again, this might be of interest, though it flys in the face of those who believe that the government should be into everything and everyone.
http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/benson.htm

Oh and this was interesting too.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1164304
Repeal -all- taxes and reduce the national debt? Wow.

Never happen today. Mr. President might have to start paying for his own haircut at Harry's again, rather than going 4 stories down to the on-staff barber.


I say, lets cut welfare, 100%. End all government coddling programs, including airline and other industry subsidies.
Only spend government money on:
- Police
- Maintaining secure borders
- building and maintaining roads, bridges etc.
- maintain a stable currency
- collect tarrifs
- maintain courts and the rule of law.
- funding of education
- protection of environment and national resources/treasures
- maint. of necessary government facilities, archives and such places that enrich us (parks, libraries, museums, etc)

No more welfare, medicade, government enforced charity, corporate handouts, free air travel, gov. cars, etc. No more food stamps. No more HEAP.

Let the poor seek the charity of their neighbor and private help.


Oh....who was the guy I quoted?

Thomas Jefferson.
Co-Founder of the party that Mrs. Clinton is a member of....a party so far removed from the views of it's founders as to be a different party all together.