Hee Il Cho.

[arnisador]

Hee Il Cho:
http://www.aimaa.com/
http://www.grandmaster-hee-il-cho.com/

Home Study Program:
http://www.aimaa.com/homestudyprogram.html
According to this page, this is Mr. Cho's personal system of TKD, containing techniques that cannot be found anywhere else.

 

[white dragon]

I don't know what peoples' views on Master Cho are, but personally I think he's a shinning example as someone who has put his love for the arts up so highly that he's managed to not only become a great martial artist but also rise above the politics that seems to devide taekwondo. His teachings are aimed towards not only the physcial aspects, but also the mental and spirital that often seem to be left beind.

 

[arnisador]

I always think of him in terms of the case where he kicked someone who was hassling him in the mouth and if memory serves lost a low 5 figures lawsuit over the resulting damages. This was in the 1970s or early 80s I believe.

 

[white dragon]

I've never heard that, hmmm, guess the "self control" part needs to be worked on!

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by arnisador

I always think of him in terms of the case where he kicked someone who was hassling him in the mouth and if memory serves lost a low 5 figures lawsuit over the resulting damages. This was in the 1970s or early 80s I believe.

Cool

 

[Drunken Master]

I am sure he is a very accomplished martial artist, however I am not so sure about the whole homestudy course.

Sending out materials and literature for people to interpret themselves without guidance sounds a little dodgy to me.

 

[white dragon]

The best story I've heard about him is when he failed someone for their blackbelt grading. when asked why he had failed them, he replied "you're too fat".

I think the best way to describe him is to say he's a great martial artist, but a strange person.

 

[Chiduce]

Master Chow is undoubtably one of the most highly skilled kickers within the world of martial arts. He stands alone as an experienced and accomplished master of self! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Ty K. Doe]

I don't see how anyone could become proficient in any martial art by using a home study program. You need the personal instruction on how to execute good technique and form. Sure I can watch myself in the mirror, but that doesn't replace your instructor. There are always small critiques that can help you improve that you can't pick up by watching yourself in a mirror. Also, how could you test your skill without going up against your classmates?

He might be a great martial artist, but what is he thinking with a home study program.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Ty K. Doe

He might be a great martial artist, but what is he thinking with a home study program.

I noted a two-page ad for it in the current issue of TKD Times.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Ty K. Doe

I don't see how anyone could become proficient in any martial art by using a home study program. You need the personal instruction on how to execute good technique and form. Sure I can watch myself in the mirror, but that doesn't replace your instructor. There are always small critiques that can help you improve that you can't pick up by watching yourself in a mirror. Also, how could you test your skill without going up against your classmates?

He might be a great martial artist, but what is he thinking with a home study program.

There is nothing wrong with home study or distance learning. This is the dojo of the future for those whom live in locations where it would be difficult to obtain training in their desired martial style of choice or for that matter any martial art style! Distance learning has been going on for years at colleges and universities in studies from criminal justice to engineering sciences. So, why not martial arts? Most distance learning martial arts programs require video testing and have constant interaction either through phone, e-mail, mail or all three. I have 1 distance learning student myself and he get's the same program that i teach in the dojo. My lessons are private and we stay in constant contact with each other on techniques, motion, footwork etc,. This brings the dojo into the students home and actually is no difference from the student at the main dojo calling, e-mailing, or sending in a video to test because they are going out of town for a few weeks. It works if you work it according to the same rules that apply in the main training hall! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Ty K. Doe]

Chiduce,

I don't care how you slice it, studying college courses is in no way the same as studying something that involves physical motion and technique. You may think you have your technique down right, but without someone there to physically coach you, you have no idea how bad you might be telegraphing, or throwing your balance off by using the incorrect stance, or a multitude of minor or major details that make a world of difference. Basically, what your saying is that I can, or anyone for that matter, can learn martial arts from watching Van Damme, Bruce Lee, or Seagal movies.

Here's what Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee had to say in an interview with the Temple of the Unkown.

Interviewer:
Please allow me to explain a little about myself. I have never had any form of martial arts training from an instructor. However, I cycle many miles and skip for endurance. I lift weights 3-4 times per week and constantly push myself to new goals. I eat and rest plenty.

Through observing many martial arts and disciplines and extensive reading, I take out various moves I believe to be the most practical/best/devastating/controlling and practice them. Mostly using a heavy-bag hung from beams. An example might be a side-kick copied from the way Bruce executed them, or a left hook taken from the Joe Frasier dip n hit school of thought. I have been tested on two seperate occasions in real combat that I could not run from. However, my opponents were not classically trained in any form but street brawlers/thugs.

I would like to ask your opinions on my training and any suggestions you could give me? I am worried that if I attend a 'school' with 'set' rules that have been taught for many years that they will erradicate my 'way'.

Jhoon Rhee:
Yeah I really strongly recommend that you join some studio because of course anybody can become good. But, it takes a longer time because you have to find a shortcut that somebody already discovered. So why not learn from someone that already learned. And you would save a lot of time if you joined a school.

Learning from books is not like learning martial arts, or any sport. Your brain remembers words, your body remembers movements.

I would rather go toe-to-toe with somebody who trained themselves rather than someone who was taught one-to-one, anyday.

Until that instructor stands in front of you and straightens your wrist, moves your foot, or bends your knee, you have no clue if you have it down right.

 

[Chiduce]

I have been studying the martial arts for many years now. One thing that i have learned is that what works for one in an actual violent street confrontation may not work for another. Thus, the basics are just that, the basics. In street combat you will not have time to correct your stance or your wrist or your motion when you are committed. Now for tournaments, and kumite with padding, your type of understanding is ok! There are no rules in the street. You are fair game when the would be attacker says that you are and there may and possibly will be no warning. what so ever. I know that each street fight that i have had had a different twist to it. I have trained in traditional martial arts and non traditional martial arts; combat martial arts ( military) and non combat (non-military). When the military learns for combat, they only learn the basics form the instructor and the rest is in the manual. Therefore, it is not the teacher who is going to face the camera of life alone; it is the student. From street corner to street corner; from dojo to dojo, or from morgue to morgue! So, martial arts can be learned from any source, video tape, book, CD, etc, that is available because in the real world, nothing matters but survival. Now, it is best to at least have the basic foundation down before one would start supplemental individual training! Yet that is why many Soke within the martial arts community today have "Independant Martial Arts Organizations". These organizations are open to any martial artist regardless of style, school, type of learning process such as ( books, cd's, video's etc,). They also offer rank advancement and distance learning courses themselves. Many of your well known and respectable higher ranking masters are on the board of directors, consultants to the board, and promotion boards of these independant organizations. So, welcome to the real world and politics of the martial arts community! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[daniel_r]

I can maybe see the benifit of you are already studying it in a real class.... but dont know about home study from scratch bit of a waste of time in my opinion

 

[Ty K. Doe]

To a degree I can agree with daniel_r. If you had become proficient in TKD and then began to learn something like tang soo do or shorin-ryu or some other similar form of karate I could possibly understand. But if you were going from a form of karate to some submission or grappling style I believe you would need the one-to-one help of a qualified instructor. It sounds as if you are (Chinduce) into more of a UFC type of training. Or perhaps live in some gang infested area or are part of some mafia (which is none of my business). In any case I'd be concerned if you have to worry so much about violent street confrontations.

I know that each street fight that i have had had a different twist to it.

Geez, I hope as a martial artist you are not out looking for these fights.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Ty K. Doe

To a degree I can agree with daniel_r. If you had become proficient in TKD and then began to learn something like tang soo do or shorin-ryu or some other similar form of karate I could possibly understand. But if you were going from a form of karate to some submission or grappling style I believe you would need the one-to-one help of a qualified instructor. It sounds as if you are (Chinduce) into more of a UFC type of training. Or perhaps live in some gang infested area or are part of some mafia (which is none of my business). In any case I'd be concerned if you have to worry so much about violent street confrontations.



Geez, I hope as a martial artist you are not out looking for these fights.

No. homs I'am not in the maifia, though i do have FBI, CIA, and Military Intelligence ties! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Ty K. Doe]

...i do have FBI, CIA, and Military Intelligence ties!

Wow! I could use you to do background checks on some of my renters.

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Originally posted by Chiduce
One thing that i have learned is that what works for one in an actual violent street confrontation may not work for another. Thus, the basics are just that, the basics. In street combat you will not have time to correct your stance or your wrist or your motion when you are committed. Now for tournaments, and kumite with padding, your type of understanding is ok! There are no rules in the street. You are fair game when the would be attacker says that you are and there may and possibly will be no warning. what so ever. I know that each street fight that i have had had a different twist to it

Yes I agree with Daniel R. and Ty K. Doe.

I think learning martial arts from home study programs should only be used in supplement to attending class. If you replace classes with demostration, there is alot of lesson that is being missed.

If one was able to learn only by visuals, then I believe no one would attend any classes. One can only get so descriptive without actually seeing a movement in person. This is basically the main source of improvement... I can't see how one would learn in such a manner.


We do have home study programs at my place of training, but it is used only in supplement. We would never use it in place on formal training. To me, that seems like training at half power. There is nothing in the home study programs, that isn't expressed in the class. Where as, there are many things in class that aren't expressed in home study program.

In regards to real-life street situations, my experience has lead me to believe otherwise. Yes, it is basics that usually work in a real fight, but its the fine-tuning of all techniques that is the main factor. Have you heard the term, "formless form"? You drill your technique's perfect, so when real-life confrontation happens, you don't need to 'correct your stance or your wrist or your motion when you are committed'. It just becomes a feeling, or an action that is natural to your body. You must train your techniques to a point where they are reflexive. Without this, basics are useless. Besides, every situation is different. If you happen to fight an experienced fighter, basic techniques may not always work, as he/she maybe be accustomed to attacks in that manner. So I feel that every technique has the same amount of importance, whether it be basics or otherwise. [edit, Actually, basics are the foundation of techniques so they do have more importance in that respect. But in effectiveness, they are all the same to me.]

You are correct in some military processes of training. But the possibility of their basics being more effective than the complete art, is possible but very very unlikely. Especially if you are left to master techniques on your own. This is just taking a much longer path to reach the same destination.

Maybe there is a big part of the home study program that I'm missing. Could you further explain, so that I may be able to gain a better understanding? :asian: :asian:

 

[Chiduce]

ThunderFoot; yes i have heard of "mushin" and "jiyu kata"! Yet in the real world fighting muscle memory and the like are obsolete. The fight starts when the eye contact if any is made, or when the first touch, push, strike is thrown to connect with some part of the body. I understand "feeling attention" also; but what martial artist has a curriculum which teaches feeling attention. The closest concept would be teach alertness. Now, as for the military, you must have heard of the term "swift, silent and deadly" counterpart (rock marine) also you must have heard of the term "Drill Sergeant"( the ones who train special forces, marines, airborne rangers, delta force, or navy seals etc,). The military arts of clandestine combat are extremely deadly and meant as was the ancient martial arts of the samurai, minamoto bujutsu, and jigen ryu to kill and kill only! And, yes the drill sergeant trains to kill many by himself, for he will possibly be the only one left out of many! Nothing has changed sir, except better technology! I'am not saying this to offend anyone or step on any toes. In my world as a individual whom has earned his citizenship through 17 yrs. military experience & service to this great nation in both the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps the picture that i view of life's experience is not theory, but based on factual events. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Originally posted by Chiduce

ThunderFoot; yes i have heard of "mushin" and "jiyu kata"! Yet in the real world fighting muscle memory and the like are obsolete. The fight starts when the eye contact if any is made, or when the first touch, push, strike is thrown to connect with some part of the body. I understand "feeling attention" also; but what martial artist has a curriculum which teaches feeling attention. The closest concept would be teach alertness. Now, as for the military, you must have heard of the term "swift, silent and deadly" counterpart (rock marine) also you must have heard of the term "Drill Sergeant"( the ones who train special forces, marines, airborne rangers, delta force, or navy seals etc,). The military arts of clandestine combat are extremely deadly and meant as was the ancient martial arts of the samurai, minamoto bujutsu, and jigen ryu to kill and kill only! And, yes the drill sergeant trains to kill many by himself, for he will possibly be the only one left out of many! Nothing has changed sir, except better technology! I'am not saying this to offend anyone or step on any toes. In my world as a individual whom has earned his citizenship through 17 yrs. military experience & service to this great nation in both the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps the picture that i view of life's experience is not theory, but based on factual events. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

My "real-life" experience has proven me to be very different. I too have factual events from which my experience flows from. I have learned that NOTHING is obsolete in the real world, especially muscle memory. Any one fight, can not be identical to another, therefore all techniques must be fine tuned. I understand fights usually start at first push, or glare... but once the decision is made to attack/defend, is it not those same reflexive motions that take action? To parry a real-time blow, or to seize a real-time rush? To say one does not use muscle memory in "real life" situations is very hard for me to believe. Its the foundation of near every technique.

While "feeling attention" may not be part of a particular cirriculum, it is the by-product of continous training and perserverance. One can also say that this feeling attention is better learned in person, where as a home study program may not produce such results.

I am familiar with U.S. military combat tactics. Its techniques are deemed deadly, yet most training is done with weapons as they will kill opponents the fastest. Empty hand combat techniques are very basic (as you stated) and are not the main focus of combat . And for the hand-to-hand they do recieve, they can be just as deadly as the martial arts they derive their techniques from. But i ask you, how many people can go around your average city killing another when presented with a confrontation??? If you do this, you will be discharged quickly and thrown in prison, possibly even given the death penalty.

I'm sure you've heard the analogy "In the Martial World, sercrets don't exist". There is no technique in any part of the world, that hasn't been performed atleast once by another. These deadly basics, are just that... basics. When you learn math, do you limit yourself to simple addition and subtraction? Of course they will get the job done, but there are much more faster, advanced effecient ways of performing the same job.

I relate basic techniques to the foundation of a house. If a house is built on a weak foundation, the house will eventually breakdown. Yet with only foundation, one can not take shelter within the foundation. The foundation is not to be confused as the complete home.

Sorry I wrote so much. It is just very hard for me to understand this concept of which you are speaking of. The tools of which you say are not necessary in "real life" are the very knowledge of all my teachers and masters... along with my personal experience and interactions. Sorry if at all I seemed to have an offensive heir to my description, its simply the fact that this is the first time that I have come across such a philosophy of life. I only wish to better understand.
:asian: :asian: