Has MMA done harm to martial arts

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'll take your word for it, I'll never watch a match, I hate even watchng the commercials.

If you won't watch it, don't post about it. Honestly, you should give it a try. Commercials are commercials. I don't like them either, so I can understand why you're put off by them. But those commercials are not nearly as offending as the conduct of some of the olympians. As a taekwondoist, I was very disappointed by what I saw. Not only were the matches pretty lousy, but there was a cloud of possible corruption surrounding the selection of the US team, the US team did not reflect traditional martial arts in any way, and the martial art got a literal fat lip, courtesy of the Cuban competitor, all topped off with a blessing from Castro.

I'd rather watch MMA.

Truth be told, MMA isn't my thing either, but I have watched quite a few UFC fights and those competitors are not a bunch of meatheads. If you have a good degree of martial arts experience and can follow what they're doing, it's hard not to enjoy it.

And honestly, they do go into the ring with respect towards one another. I don't see temper tantrums in UFC matches, at least none of the ones I've watched.

Just my twelve cents.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Remember Slice's last fight? remember what the stand in had to say after the fight?

No, I've actually never seen Slice fight. I generally wind up watching the regular matches with friends at Hard Times Cafe once in a while, so I don't often see the big names. I don't have time to watch it very often these days.

premade outcomes are only a LITTLE ways away.

Perhaps, but until it becomes a reality, I can only call it as I currently see it. It would be a pity if things went down that road, but once big money is a factor, integrity becomes increasingly hard to maintain.

Daniel

 

[Steve]

To be honest, I hate the UFC, MMA, and The Cage. They have enough rules to give the grapplers the advantage but enough license is left to really hurt somebody. I hate the attitude of the fighters I see in the commercials, with their tattoos and tough guy persona and arrogance, the opposite character traits that martial arts are supposed to instill. I am interested in martial arts for self defense and hope to never use any of it. Taking martial arts and turning them into a sport is the opposite of what I'm into.

But they have the right to do what they do, I wouldn't ever vote to make it illegal, I have the right to not like it.

Two things, first, the rules actually favor strikers more than the other way around. I won't bore you with details, but if you're interested I'll go into it a little more.

Second, I agree that the tattoos and tough guy stuff is irritating and unecessary. I mentioned this in my initial response to the thread, and believe it's more to do with the marketing and the culture being promoted than the bulk of those who train in the different disciplines (muay thai, bjj, etc).

But "martial arts are supposed to instill" what again? I couldn't disagree more with the idea that martial arts are "supposed" to do anything more than make a person better at what is being taught. I am distrustful of any school that purports to teach anything above that. The pursuit of excellence and purity in ANY action will result in spiritual growth. Gardening extremely well, or pursuing excellence in gardening, will result in spiritual fulfillment and growth. But you wouldn't say that gardening SHOULD or is SUPPOSED to do anything other than produce flowers or plants that grow is just wackiness, in my opinion.

 

[Steve]

When there are as many MMA matches as there are boxing matches, thenthat will bea fiar comparison, untill then, it is not.

Aren't there more sanctioned MMA matches than boxing matches each year? Certainly plenty to provide a legitimate comparison.

I think that long term, we're going to see concussion statistics similar to NFL football players. Taking explosive blows to the noggin just CAN'T be good for you in the long term. But I believe that there is plenty of evidence to suggest from both the NFL and from MMA that single blows to the head and multiple concussions over a lifetime are, while not good, are nothing like the damage done by the repeated blows suffered in boxing.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Wow, a lot of interesting replies are here.

Another thing I would like to add is that MMA has made people more aware of the dangers and realism of ground fighting. I know that before I met a brazillian jui jitsuist I had never thought more about ground fighting than the classic ground and pound manuever, so that opened my mind a bit.

MMA has shown that it is important to be able to fight from different positions, but so many people seem to be working on being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

I think all warriors should be competant in all aspects of fighting, but I'd really like to see more mastery in the world of MA. There are so few left.

 

[searcher]

Wow, a lot of interesting replies are here.

Another thing I would like to add is that MMA has made people more aware of the dangers and realism of ground fighting. I know that before I met a brazillian jui jitsuist I had never thought more about ground fighting than the classic ground and pound manuever, so that opened my mind a bit.

MMA has shown that it is important to be able to fight from different positions, but so many people seem to be working on being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

I think all warriors should be competant in all aspects of fighting, but I'd really like to see more mastery in the world of MA. There are so few left.

Now I will say that Himura makes a valid point here on the use of ground fighting. Before the early 90's, I always felt I had a great advantage over most people when I fought on the street, because I was already training in submission techniques. After everyone started seeing how helpful they were in a fight, loads of people jumped on the bandwagon. Or they learned to avoid going to the ground. I guess it is a harmful thing for those of us that were already use to being on the ground twisting people up. For everyoen else it has made them look to additional training.


A point for you all to ponder, did the rise in MMA popularity lead to more "underground" fights? I keep hearing rumors of these fights and I know some are happening, but did it increase them? Not that they are more orless organized then they were. Something to think about. Think Kimbo Slice and where he came from.

 

[Andrew Green]

To be honest, I hate the UFC, MMA, and The Cage. They have enough rules to give the grapplers the advantage

Nope, if anything the rules favour strikers. Standups, rounds, gloves to protect the hands, etc. Even the rules around striking are more restrictive on the ground, where a grappler has the advantage with them.

I am interested in martial arts for self defense and hope to never use any of it. Taking martial arts and turning them into a sport is the opposite of what I'm into.

Well, that's nice for you. But historically its not much of a match with what martial arts have been about for a long time. Competitions where common in pretty much all the Asian, western and other regions martial arts pretty much sincse they became organized in any way.

I'll take your word for it, I'll never watch a match, I hate even watchng the commercials.

So this is a informed opinion you have of it then?

 

[Steve]

And honestly, they do go into the ring with respect towards one another. I don't see temper tantrums in UFC matches, at least none of the ones I've watched.

Just my twelve cents.

Daniel

It's there, and I cringe when I see it. Honestly, the detractors have a lot of valid ammunition. MMA is becoming progressively more infantile and the marketing is continuously ratcheting up the bloodthirsty iconography.

 

[Steve]

A point for you all to ponder, did the rise in MMA popularity lead to more "underground" fights? I keep hearing rumors of these fights and I know some are happening, but did it increase them? Not that they are more orless organized then they were. Something to think about. Think Kimbo Slice and where he came from.

I think that YouTube has had more of an impact on this than MMA. If anything, giving people who want to fight a legitimate, sanctioned venue in which to fight has reduced the need for underground fighting. YouTube, on the other hand, gives these people undue notoriety and a degree of infamy.

 

[MJS]

While I didn't necessarily agree with said Senator, you have to admit that under political pressure and threats the sport did introduce and enforce stricter rules which lead to the sport being sanctioned by state athletic commisions which then lead to increased sponsorship dollars and dramatic mainstream growth.

Oh of course. There are huge differences between now and then. I think that the changes are a plus.

I don't think it a proper comparison to just ask how many times we see players getting carted off, we need to put in into perspective by looking at a percentage of participants. And, the earlier claim that there was 1 reported death in MMA v. 96 deaths in boxing since 1992 doesn't provide enough information for a proper comparison of the two sports.

While this may be true, there're some (and not necessarily anyone on this forum) who make it seem as if its a brutal event, with no concern for the well being of the fighters. That is simply not true, and again, the uneducated opinion of certain people who know nothing about martial arts or mma.

 

[LordOfWu]

I'm just curious about a theme I saw in a number of the posts...why do so many correlate tattoos with thugs? I have tattoos, and I train with people who not only have tattoos but are professional tattoo artists, with the majority of thier body covered...and in my opinion it doesn't make them any more or less respectful of the arts they study than people with no tattoos.

I also study with MMA guys (I train in BJJ) who are much more respectful of various styles of TMA because they have pulled their whole style and substance from various different TMAs. They are more likely to get excited about a new technique or movement than anyone I've ever trained more traditional martial arts with.

I am a fan of MMA, I have no interest in competing, but I have respect for people who will train that hard to be the best in anything they do. And in my experience, people who train that hard, respect others who do the same.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'm just curious about a theme I saw in a number of the posts...why do so many correlate tattoos with thugs? I have tattoos, and I train with people who not only have tattoos but are professional tattoo artists, with the majority of thier body covered...and in my opinion it doesn't make them any more or less respectful of the arts they study than people with no tattoos.

I think this is because many people view tatoos as going against the norm, and the more tatoos one has the more against the norm he is. People then view non-norm behavior as deliquent and view deliquent behavior as "thuggish" As tatoos are common in gang culture some people will look a t a person getting a tatoo as embracing a particular "thug" life style, whether or not that's the actual reason they're doing it.

That's my sociological explaination anyway.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It's there, and I cringe when I see it. Honestly, the detractors have a lot of valid ammunition. MMA is becoming progressively more infantile and the marketing is continuously ratcheting up the bloodthirsty iconography.

I appreciate the candor.

I haven't seen a match since last summer. My life went nuts since then and as a general rule, I don't watch much television if at all avoidable.

Daniel

 

[suicide]

:angel: %-} :jediduel: :dalek:

 

[CoryKS]

I think this is because many people view tatoos as going against the norm, and the more tatoos one has the more against the norm he is. People then view non-norm behavior as deliquent and view deliquent behavior as "thuggish" As tatoos are common in gang culture some people will look a t a person getting a tatoo as embracing a particular "thug" life style, whether or not that's the actual reason they're doing it.

That's my sociological explaination anyway.

Or, as Gary Larson put it, it's "Nature's way of saying, 'Don't Touch'"

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, I'm pretty ignorant about the whole thing and will remain so, simply because I hate what I see in the commercials. That is my right, it is there right to act like a bunch of steroid abusing, obnoxious, junior high kids.

It is not your right however to brand me as the same as the Americans you see in your commercials. You can see why I take offense at your post, I don't brand you as anything, I remains respectful towards your art and if theres an idiot in your art I don't blame you for them.

 

[Steve]

I'm just curious about a theme I saw in a number of the posts...why do so many correlate tattoos with thugs? I have tattoos, and I train with people who not only have tattoos but are professional tattoo artists, with the majority of thier body covered...and in my opinion it doesn't make them any more or less respectful of the arts they study than people with no tattoos.

I also study with MMA guys (I train in BJJ) who are much more respectful of various styles of TMA because they have pulled their whole style and substance from various different TMAs. They are more likely to get excited about a new technique or movement than anyone I've ever trained more traditional martial arts with.

I am a fan of MMA, I have no interest in competing, but I have respect for people who will train that hard to be the best in anything they do. And in my experience, people who train that hard, respect others who do the same.

Terrific point. I have tattoos as well and will probably get at least one more before I'm done. My wife has one, too. We're not thugs.

 

[Joab]

It is not your right however to brand me as the same as the Americans you see in your commercials. You can see why I take offense at your post, I don't brand you as anything, I remains respectful towards your art and if theres an idiot in your art I don't blame you for them.

I was referring to what I see in the commercials, no offense to you intended. The post was how has MMA impacted the image of martial arts? The commercials are all a lot of people see, and I find them very offensive! I hate UFC, MMA, The Cage, and I always will!

 

[Steve]

I think this is because many people view tatoos as going against the norm, and the more tatoos one has the more against the norm he is. People then view non-norm behavior as deliquent and view deliquent behavior as "thuggish" As tatoos are common in gang culture some people will look a t a person getting a tatoo as embracing a particular "thug" life style, whether or not that's the actual reason they're doing it.

That's my sociological explaination anyway.

Well, anthropologically speaking, society will either incorporate or eliminate "deviant" behavior. Skirts above the knee were scandalous at one time, but barely 20 years later mini skirts were awesome... I mean common. Guys in earrings... deviant... in the 70's, okay if it was left ear only in the 80's... common in either or both ears multiple times by the middle 90's. Mohawks... same thing. Dyed hair... Body piercings... deviant in the 90's but becoming common now and will likely be no big deal in 10 years.

Tattoos are the same thing. It's society's defense mechanism as a large organism. If you can't force a group to conform, incorporate the group.

 

[Nolerama]

I was referring to what I see in the commercials, no offense to you intended. The post was how has MMA impacted the image of martial arts? The commercials are all a lot of people see, and I find them very offensive! I hate UFC, MMA, The Cage, and I always will!

We get it... Take a deep breath... Please calm down.

Just remember that most MMA gyms will offer you a really athletic, technica, and functionall work out, if you just open your mind to it. Generally speaking, we don't fall within your stereotype of an MMA practitioner. Like most MAists, we're a fairly intelligent bunch, willing to play the MA game. MMA just happens to be the competition medium in which we play.

Another thing, please take into account that many people here consider MMA their current "style." We don't intend to insult you openly but we do exist, and exist on this forum. You're going to have to deal with that, as well as the apparent, inherent insulting nature that we pose to you.

Sorry, dude.

Generally speaking we don't go around and say that _____ MA sucks (because they don't suck), so please reserve your hatred of MMA for the privacy of your own home and away from this forum.

Respectfully.