Grappling, is it needed?

[Manny]

This hapened in dojang some months ago, I was doing Syrum (korean wrestling) with Roberto a 16 years kid, Roberto is the kind of guy who never gives up, I am bigger and a little wisser than he and I ususlly win the wrestling. That time I let Roberto to take me down and pined me, I was confident I could break the pin, however I was wrong!! Roberto grab me in such a way that I couldn't stand up, I fight and fight and Roberto was above me, so I saw a gap and aim for his nerve below the ear and pinch it putting my fellow student almost in tears.

I was having a bad time and this was on the mat of the dojang!! If this would be in the street with a guy my size I think I will be desesperate however I think the using of pressure points can be an answer in the floor too.

Manny

 

[Disco]

"I think the using of pressure points can be an answer in the floor too."

Pressure points are not a good technique under stress. Not everybody responds to them. If your on the bottom of a ground and pound, you better be able to get the attacker off of you pretty darn quickly. There are better techniques to accomplish this rather than attempting to try a PP and hope it works.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not going to argue with any of the above well informed posts that say you need 'ground game' in fights today. In my day you didn't (other than the ability to get up quickly if you fell over) but times change.

One thing to bear in mind tho' is that such 'grappling' attacks are likely to occur in a one-on-one situation. If you use them offensively in a one-to-many crisis then you have just made things much worse for yourself.

Wrestling and all it's derivatives are fine in the 'ring' where you have a ground surface that is smooth and relatively soft and where you have only one opponent to deal with. The real world is less likely to favour such tactics.

So, learning to defend against people who have seen/practised too much MMA or listened to too much propoganda about how awesome it is, is a good thing. Trying to use grappling when you are dealing with more than one person who wishes you harm outside a nightclub ... not so clever.

 

[jthomas1600]

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far about the need to defend your self in all situations. I also agree with the poster who said they would not choose to go to the ground in a self defense situation. However, I can imagine a number of situations where it would be a preferable tactic. Perhaps you have a friend or relative (say a 19 year old nephew) who has had too much to drink and is bound and determined to fight someone, or a friend/neighbor who's daughter has just been assaulted and they're bound and determined to kill the guy who did it and anyone who stands in the way etc. etc. In some cases it's just nice to have the tools to neutralize someone with out knocking them the heck out.

 

[Manny]

Trying to use grappling when you are dealing with more than one person who wishes you harm outside a nightclub ... not so clever.

You are right, one thing is to fight one on one and other is to deal with more than a couple of scumb bags.

Dealing with one guy standing is not an easy task, dealing with more than two guys is very dificult now picture the same scenario but you are flat on the floor fighting one or two men and recieving stomps and kicks from a third guy who is standing!!!!

I think grappling is a nice thing to learn but it's better to fight standing.

Manny

 

[rlp271]

I will agree that it's a bad idea to go with the assailant to the ground, but putting them there isn't so bad. Most people who are going to attack you are probably going to be untrained/mildly trained if we're talking self-defense. The top players in any martial art are rarely bullies it seems. I never hear about a guy like Gene Labell mugging someone in a back alley. I would take the ability to slam someone to the ground like a trained Judoka, and I bet they could do it to a few people in a row.

I've also thought about finding the solution in your own art, but the biggest problem I see with that is most of the time, you're finding stuff and playing with it, but there isn't someone there that can guide you. If I am going to learn to throw people, I'd prefer learning from someone that throws other people all the time. So, I'm going to learn Judo. If I want to learn to put people in arm bars and triangle chokes from the ground, I'm going to a BJJ guy. You can find things in your own art, but once you've found them, you need someone who does it all the time to show you how to make the best use of what you've found. There are a lot of clinch distance leg sweeps in Isshinryu, and I found that consulting the local Judo black belt did wonders in figuring out how they work properly.

 

[rlp271]

You are right, one thing is to fight one on one and other is to deal with more than a couple of scumb bags.

Dealing with one guy standing is not an easy task, dealing with more than two guys is very dificult now picture the same scenario but you are flat on the floor fighting one or two men and recieving stomps and kicks from a third guy who is standing!!!!

I think grappling is a nice thing to learn but it's better to fight standing.

Manny

I think we all tend to forget that there are different steps to grappling. The first is the clinch, then the throw, then the transition to the ground. If I'm throwing people to the ground as hard as most Judoka do, they aren't getting back up right away, and it doesn't take a lot of effort to stomp on them. That gives me opportunity to move to the next person without going to the ground. I think being proficient at throws can make you just as able to take on multiple attackers as a good striker. Which is, not that qualified haha. I don't think you should EVER take on multiple attackers if you can avoid it, because it can rarely end well. Too many variables, guns, knives, boards, etc. One on one isn't even that much of a foregone conclusion in self-defense.