Good Cop / Bad Cop

[MJS]

rofl

See, you don't even want to give it a try. You already set yourself up to fail.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Now here is some cop harassing this poor woman. All she wanted to do was check her car, and look what happens. It's because she's black isn't it?
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Another law abiding citizen taken out despite his pollite and respectfu manner by a man hating femmanazi control freak.
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Damn, two innocent people, abused by the Blue Wall.

 

[Archangel M]

Ive fielded a few complaint investigations. In one, it was....the cop ran a red light and went to the station where "I saw him walk slowly into the station so there was no emergency"....well the entrance is in the back of the building unviewable from the street. When asked how they saw this I get uhhhhhh....
coupled with the fact that a combative suspect was being brought in and officers were responding to assist, it went nowhere.

Im pretty sure that that complaint was filed under the "cops covering for each other".."most complaints go unanswered" heading by the complainant.

 

[MJS]

Mike,

I apologize but I believe I did mention that I had officers stop to assist. I did not go into details as that would have been boring. I did try to state that it was just as likely as the other incidents I listed.


Thanks

Hey Rich,

I saw your post. I don't know man, just seems like more people have a grudge than anything else.

 

[MJS]

Yet another biased source:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/19/AR2007061901161_pf.html

Hmm...maybe I missed it when I skimmed through the article, but I have to wonder why, when we see things like this, it just talks about what the cop did. When he approached person A, were they acting like an ***, did they attack the cop, etc. I mean, we see an article that says a cop beat someone, yet we don't see that the suspect lunged at the cop and then the cop hit him.

 

[Sukerkin]

Having watched the vids posted by LL above ...

... and people have the nerve to complain about how they are treated.

Obviously I don't know if she was acting differently than normal because she was being filmed but that female officer was remarkable. An uncooperative, verbally hostile and abusive chap makes to get out of the car at me, I'd've shot him ... just like he wanted :angel:.

The first film tho', I did think at first that it was a bit excessive to take the lass 'in' just because she was guilty of an attack of 'the dims' (crossing a tape marked "DO NOT CROSS!") but then I realised that if they were doing forensics there then they needed to eliminate the 'pollution'. Of course there was also the suspicion that she may have been attempting to remove or conceal something but her demeanour suggested otherwise.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Nice comments on Youtube on this one. Seems most of the respondants would rather see cops die. Personlly, I think they did AOK here.
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Watch this clip as a cop roughs up a woman on video. Bet the bastard gets away scott free too.
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See, the nice thing about YouTube is, there are tons of videos up that show thegood, the bad, and the ****ed up.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Looks like another complainer with all his excuses ready is pulled over.
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Oh, looks like she was right afterall, but what a sweet attitude she has.
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Oh, and cops aren't perfect as this next video clearly shows. LOL!
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[Archangel M]

LOL! Ive had that happen before. I was bailing out to chase someone though. [SARCASM]Sometimes doling out excessive force is so important I forget to put it in park. [/SARCASM]

 

[The Last Legionary]

Seems someone was bothered by my timely reference some posts back. For the uninformed or clueless, let me clarify where my closing comment came from.

3 NYC police officers charged in sodomy attack
Man's DNA was found on police baton after he suffered 'anal assault'

Seems NYC cops have a fixation with jamming things up peoples asses as this isn't the first case like this they've been involved in, though I believe a flash light was involved in one of the earlier cases.

Now, I'm always one to be fair as everyone here knows. I mean I'm the King of Fair.
So, enjoy this. http://www.sanfranciscobay.com/dirty/police.htm Theres a few pages, showing both convictions and get-away-frees. I know nothing about the majority of the cases, cannot cite the objectivity of the site or anything. Feel free to research the particulars on your own. Me, I'm going off for a while to play "hide the baton" with Officer Amy and I do hope she brings her hand cuffs! Whoof! I'll be having more fun than the chip on shoulder folks I assure you. Toodles!

 

[jks9199]

Sure, but even in my memory, I can think of many police officers caught in brazen misconduct that got away with administrative punishments like suspension with pay (free vacation!) or other slaps on the wrist. Even then, those punishments often only came about because of taped evidence, not testimony of other officers. Unless you have a quantitative study of some sort, then posting Google nuggets is rather useless.



From statistics posted earlier in this thread, only 8% of 25,000 or so complaints were substantiated. Take another example posted earlier in this thread from Mr. Parsons. Do you really think a complaint would have worked for him without documentary evidence? That his testimony would be believed over that of the multiple other officers present? That one of those officers would have confessed to his own misconduct or ratted out the others? I rather doubt it. I guess that makes me a cowardly whiner.

Suspension isn't "a free vacation." Generally, a disciplinary suspension means you don't get paid. (Could you skip a week or two of paychecks?) Depending on the length and circumstances, the clock towards retirement may stop. A recent suspension stops most applications for specialty positions and promotion. It's a lot different from a slap on the wrist. (And, in my department and the ones I know of... if you're going to be suspended, you can't just use some leave to make up the paycheck. Many times, you won't be permitted OT during that pay period, either.)

Admin suspensions are routine in certain cases, and may or may not be paid. Depending on why an administrative suspension was used, the department may even go back and collect that pay before they fire you...

 

[jks9199]

Good cops and bad cops… I’m not going to try to address every post individually.

Guess what? As long as we hire police officers that start life as human beings, we’re going to end up with some bad cops. Sometimes, despite every effort in screening, someone gets through that is a bully at heart, or even an outright criminal. Sometimes there’s no way to tell until they’ve passed the academy and hit the street. Sometimes… it’s not even till they’ve been on their own a bit… But that’s also a far cry from allegations of some sort of systematic or intentional abuse.

Most people who become cops do so because they sincerely want to help and protect people, no matter how corny it sounds to say so. But the job will wear you down; nobody calls the cops because their kid got straight As or drew a pretty picture that’s stuck up on the fridge. Cops are the party poopers. They’re the ones who tell you to knock it off when you’re having a good time – but are never there fast enough when it’s the other guy’s good time that’s disturbing yours. Someone compared cops and soldiers; there’s a lot of validity, but one huge difference. Most people won’t have an encounter with a soldier who’s going to tell them what to do or make them do something they don’t want to. Most people will, at least once in their life, encounter a police officer who’s telling them to stop doing something or to move along or that they can’t go down that road or whatever. That does shape how society in general relates to the police – and how the police in general relate to society. Jack Webb as Joe Friday in Dragnet described it pretty well:

(Jack delivers the following speech about the trials and tribulations of being a police officer to a rookie undercover officer suspected of robbing a liquor store. It's our most-requested speech, and many people frame the words. (Please note that this transcript was taken from the slightly edited Nick at Nite version of this episode. We plan to add a few missing lines soon.)
"It's awkward having a policeman around the house. Friends drop in, a man with a badge answers the door, the temperature drops 20 degrees.
You throw a party and that badge gets in the way. All of a sudden there isn't a straight man in the crowd. Everybody's a comedian. "Don't drink too much," somebody says, "or the man with a badge'll run you in." Or "How's it going, Dick Tracy? How many jaywalkers did you pinch today?" And then there's always the one who wants to know how many apples you stole.
All at once you lost your first name. You're a cop, a flatfoot, a bull, a dick, John Law. You're the fuzz, the heat; you're poison, you're trouble, you're bad news. They call you everything, but never a policeman.
It's not much of a life, unless you don't mind missing a Dodger game because the hotshot phone rings. Unless you like working Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, at a job that doesn't pay overtime. Oh, the pay's adequate-- if you count pennies you can put your kid through college, but you better plan on seeing Europe on your television set.
And then there's your first night on the beat. When you try to arrest a drunken prostitute in a Main St. bar and she rips your new uniform to shreds. You'll buy another one-- out of your own pocket.
And you're going to rub elbows with the elite-- pimps, addicts, thieves, bums, winos, girls who can't keep an address and men who don't care. Liars, cheats, con men-- the class of Skid Row.
And the heartbreak-- underfed kids, beaten kids, molested kids, lost kids, crying kids, homeless kids, hit-and-run kids, broken-arm kids, broken-leg kids, broken-head kids, sick kids, dying kids, dead kids. The old people nobody wants-- the reliefers, the pensioners, the ones who walk the street cold, and those who tried to keep warm and died in a $3 room with an unventilated gas heater. You'll walk your beat and try to pick up the pieces.
Do you have real adventure in your soul? You better have, because you're gonna do time in a prowl car. Oh, it's going to be a thrill a minute when you get an unknown-trouble call and hit a backyard at two in the morning, never knowing who you'll meet-- a kid with a knife, a pill-head with a gun, or two ex-cons with nothing to lose.
And you're going to have plenty of time to think. You'll draw duty in a lonely car, with nobody to talk to but your radio.
Four years in uniform and you'll have the ability, the experience and maybe the desire to be a detective. If you like to fly by the seat of your pants, this is where you belong. For every crime that's committed, you've got three million suspects to choose from. And most of the time, you'll have few facts and a lot of hunches. You'll run down leads that dead-end on you. You'll work all-night stakeouts that could last a week. You'll do leg work until you're sure you've talked to everybody in the state of California.
People who saw it happen - but really didn't. People who insist they did it - but really didn't. People who don't remember - those who try to forget. Those who tell the truth - those who lie. You'll run the files until your eyes ache.
And paperwork? Oh, you'll fill out a report when you're right, you'll fill out a report when you're wrong, you'll fill one out when you're not sure, you'll fill one out listing your leads, you'll fill one out when you have no leads, you'll fill out a report on the reports you've made! You'll write enough words in your lifetime to stock a library. You'll learn to live with doubt, anxiety, frustration. Court decisions that tend to hinder rather than help you. Dorado, Morse, Escobedo, Cahan. You'll learn to live with the District Attorney, testifying in court, defense attorneys, prosecuting attorneys, judges, juries, witnesses. And sometimes you're not going to be happy with the outcome.
But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done.
I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them."​

Some if it’s not totally accurate anymore (most of us get OT pay now, and many departments issue uniforms – but not all!), but a lot of it is still true. The stale jokes that are old by the time you’re done FTO… the people who won’t associate with you… and the emotional, spiritual, and physical wear and tear is something that there really aren’t words to explain.

Unfortunately… cops are human. They have bad days. The general crap does get to them. It’s not excusing being rude or unprofessional… but it does serve as mitigation. How many times can people in general lie to you before you decide that everyone is a liar? How many times can someone insult your parenthood before you start to question the parenthood of the people you deal with? It does get to you; it does wear you down… and sometimes, it just plain comes out. You also have to remember that sometimes a cop has to “speak the language” that the people he’s dealing with understand. In a neighborhood where the median income is in the seven figure range, that’s one way… but in an area with a 4 or 5 figure median income… Well, “pretty please” and a gentle guiding hand won’t get you very far. Again, to be clear, I’m not at all suggesting that every cop is perfect or that it’s acceptable for a cop to be less than professional – but I am absolutely saying it’s human to be so. And, I’ll tell you, most cops live for and measure their experiences by the “exceptional” moments, like the day a little boy walked up and told me that I was his friend – because “the police are our friends.”

With regard to cover-ups, internal investigations, and the like… Yeah, cops do stick together. Perhaps you’re familiar with Prince Henry’s speech from Shakespeare:

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother​

Yes, cops will look out for each other – especially in minor matters. But there’s nobody despised by law enforcement officers more than a true dirty cop. We just often don't want to air our dirty laundry in public, any more than you would.

It was asked what you might do to ensure a more positive encounter with the police. It’s a joke – but Chris Rock’s bit about how not to get your *** kicked by the police has a lot of truth. Start by treating us the way you want to be treated. For example, one clueless soccer mom was rather upset at the way I spoke to her one day. Well… I admit, I was a bit out of sorts. See, I’d followed her, with my lights and sirens on, for about 3 blocks till she parked and got out of her car… For some reason, I wasn’t all sweetness and light when I made contact with her... Obey the law. (In fact, you’ve probably heard of “professional courtesy”; I’ve said many times that it starts with the cop being courteous enough NOT to give someone a reason to stop them.) Listen to what the cop says when he approaches you. If I’m stopping someone because they’re similar to a lookout, I’m probably going to explain that to you, though the explanation may come after I’ve sorted out who you are depending on the exact circumstances.

Cops do make mistakes, and they do things that they shouldn’t. If you happen to get caught in the middle of one of those incidents – go with the program. The time to argue and fuss over it isn’t on the side of the road or in the street. (Rich Parsons described his situation quite well – and it came out so well because he didn’t make it harder at the time.) Do what the cops say, work with them… and, if appropriate, deal with the mistake through whatever channel (official or press or even civil court) AFTERWARDS. Think of it kind of like a leaking toilet; you could ***** and call the manufacturer about the leak while it’s going on… but you’ll still have the mess growing unless you deal with the situation and stop the leak first. By going with the program, you’ll “stop the leak” and be able to deal with the problem later.

 

[Empty Hands]

Suspension isn't "a free vacation." Generally, a disciplinary suspension means you don't get paid. (Could you skip a week or two of paychecks?)

Hence my specification of "with pay".

 

[Drac]

But there’s nobody despised by law enforcement officers more than a true dirty cop. We just often don't want to air our dirty laundry in public, any more than you would.

A few years ago there were a number of Cleveland Police busted for giving protection to some "drug-boys"..They were investigated and FIRED ..There was NO COVERING up by their brother officers...

 

[KP.]

A few years ago there were a number of Cleveland Police busted for giving protection to some "drug-boys"..They were investigated and FIRED ..There was NO COVERING up by their brother officers...

So, they were at least aiding and abetting criminals, if not in violation of RICO laws. Were they prosecuted?

If a civilian gave overt help to drug dealers for money, would they most likely be prosecuted?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A quick google search found these. It looks like in Ohio at least, complaints are investigated, and Bad Cops punished.

I also found several references to officers injured or killed in the line of duty. Sometimes I wonder if those who complain know what a cops job is really like. Sometimes I wonder if they even care.

• Veteran police officer fired in Sagamore Hills Township
• Garfield Heights police officer faces rape charges
• Ex-Cleveland officer gets 4 years in prison
• Cleveland: Officer involved in shooting
• Oakwood police officer arraigned on felonious assault charge
• Akron police cleared in 22-shot fatal shooting
• Highland Hills policeman charged with stealing from evidence room
• Cleveland police officer charged with drug abuse
• Oakwood police officer indicted for felonious assault of a driver

All articles from http://outside.in/Cleveland_OH/tags/police officers

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Let me balance this by saying, yes, there are corrupt, confused and just not right police and police departments.

Lets backtrack for a moment, and review the whole 'kneeling on the neck' thread. If you did that to me, you'd paralyze me. The suggestion of "don't be there then", doesn't cut it, if my job were that of a street reporter.

I've tracked complaints where cops have backed horses into protesters, dragged people -into- their lines and clubbed them, knocked down and dragged people across gravel and beaten on them when they tried to protect themselves from the gravel. I've seen them break the law, heard from very reliable sources some of what goes on. I come from a family with long roots in both the military and law enforcement, going back to the 40's.

This site has a god number of LEO's on it, and I know the "Bad Cop" stories bother them. It bothers them because it tears them up when they see other cops going bad, and the loss of public trust and respect it causes, making their jobs that much harder.

Here's the problem. You can complain about it all you want. We can tell out horror stories, all we want. We can share videos, war stories, whatever.

Doesn't change a thing.

The only thing that is going to change this situation is if people stop doing the helpless bit, and do something about it. Are there corrupt cops and corrupt departments and corrupt politicians? Damn right there are.

And complaining here, or anywhere but here you need to isn't going to change anything.
Organize. Take your communities back. Stop being victims and do something. Complain loudly, repeatedly, and join with others and grow.

I say this about government office, I say it about the police, I say it about rights. Unless you stand up, stand tall, and make your voice be heard, -and counted- nothing will change, except to get worse.

Change takes time, momentum must build up force, and one must act intelligently. I shouldn't have to tell this to people on a martial arts board.

 

[Archangel M]

It happens ALL the time Bob. People seem to want to harbor the idea that its like "The Shield" out there...in MANY depts there is some sort of IA going on at almost all times. Some are cleared, some get punised, some get fired. Depts dont publicize it...it typically isnt in the depts best interest to do so.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

People who've been on here long enough know me well. Give me a debate and I can prove almost any point, then turn around and destroy my argument, then turn around and destroy my destruction. Hell, I've proven Jesus both did and didn't exist. Im sure I could find 100 bad cop stories, 100 bad cop got away with it stories, then find 100 bad cop got busted stories. Won't fix the problem. Only we can, and we can't fix it if we make the good cops feel like ****. If anything I want the good cops on my side.

 

[Archangel M]

Appreciate it Bob...really do.

As a side point of sorts. Some of these stories we see on the net need to be handled with a grain of salt. I recall a discussion I had a bit back on what was being touted as outright abuse by prison guards caught on tape:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67907&highlight=force+law

Until you read the whole story it looks really bad. People need to realize that "complaints" come to us in varying degrees from outright lies at one end to officers getting fired at the other end. While your (general you) run in may seem like the worst case of abuse by the cops ever and you want that cop fired...its not always whats right. Then you get the people with BS complaints spreading their war stories to everybody they can.

Thats NOT to say that ALL complaints are fabricated..but not ALL are legit either. There are drawers full of BS lawsuits in my dept from people just looking for a payday. THEY do the people with legit complaints a grave disservice.