Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready!

[Bob Hubbard]

Now this looks to be annoying.

Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready!

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Saturday August 18, @06:37PM
from the certainly-not-of-or-for-the-people dept.
rev_media writes to tell us that CNN has a few updates to the Real ID act currently facing legislators. The Real ID acts mandates all states to begin issuing federal IDs to all citizens by 2008. Costs could be as much at $14 billion, but only 40 million are currently allocated. Several states have passed legislation expressly forbidding participation in the program, while others seem to be all for it. The IDs will be required for access to all federal areas including flights, state parks and federal buildings. People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights.
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/08/18/1942200.shtml

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Real ID FAQ

The act aims to weave driver's licenses and state ID cards into a sort of national identification system. States must begin issuing new federal licenses by May 11, 2008, unless they receive an extension. The cards would be mandatory for all "federal purposes." People in states that don't comply with the new rules will have to use passports for federal purposes.

The following provides requirements of the act, signed in 2005:


Who must get one?

Anyone with a driver's license or state ID who is an American citizen or legal alien, or who has permanent resident status, a nonimmigrant visa, protected status, asylum or pending application for asylum.

What must federal driver's licenses contain?

Name, address, date of birth, gender, driver's license or state ID number, photo, signature and security features to prevent tampering and counterfeiting. The data must be stored on a bar code.

When do they go into effect?

May 11, 2008, but states can request an extension to January 1, 2010.

Where will the information be kept?

States are charged with storing your personal information and digital photo for seven to 10 years. The states also are charged with protecting the information and running security clearances.

Why do I have to get one?

The Real ID Act of 2005 passed as part of an emergency military spending and tsunami relief bill. The act is aimed at "improved security for driver's licenses and personal identification cards."

How do I get one?

Complying states' department of motor vehicle offices will require you to show up before May 10, 2013, and provide a photo ID, birth certificate, proof of Social Security account and proof of residence.

What if I live in a noncompliant state?

No federal agency will accept your state-issued driver's license as a valid form of ID. You will need to use a passport at federal buildings and parks, and for domestic air travel.

 

[Makalakumu]

Now this looks to be annoying.

Annoying? This is just another step to get the sheep to accept chip. This is America, since when do you need your "papers" to get in a god damned national park? Sorry, Bob, this goes far beyond annoying for me. I'm pissed. I'm watching my country fall apart because people are too afraid of the boogieman "terrorists" to even care.

 

[Phoenix44]

Great idea. Then we can get our friends and neighbors to report us to the authorities if we act funny. Then the police can just stop us when we're minding our own business, demand our "papers" and arrest us.

Oh wait...I think they had that once in Germany...

 

[Sukerkin]

Nothing is more injurious to the continuation of societies founded on the supposed freedom of the electorate than the concept of 'papers'.

Whenever such an idea has been implemented throughout history it is a sign of a state that is either already totalitarian or about to become so.

We've touched on this sort of thing a few times in just the brief period I've been here at MT and it's scary to see the country that's supposed to be the Beacon of Democracy becoming just another Shade of Stalin .

Couple that with the fact that there's a major confrontation coming between the religious fundamentalists of the world and the thread we have about where our American members would emigrate to takes on a special piquincy.

I live in a country where we've never been free, as I've said before we're Subjects of the Crown rather than Citizens of Great Britain, so, altho' our 'bonds' are near invisible they are still there. You chaps had a pretty close approximation of freedom of the individual and it's being (been?) taken away from you .

 

[Steel Tiger]

I live in a country where we've never been free, as I've said before we're Subjects of the Crown rather than Citizens of Great Britain, so, altho' our 'bonds' are near invisible they are still there. You chaps had a pretty close approximation of freedom of the individual and it's being (been?) taken away from you .

As an Australian I know whereof you speak my friend, we also are technically Subjects of the Crown.

So I'm thinking that by this time next year United States of America will be a misnomer. It may have taken 150 years but it looks like the Confederacy is about to gets its wish.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

That's a whole different arguement, but from all my research, the abuses we've been seeing here these last years would never have been allowed to happen under the Confederate government.

Another point - I was recently at national park....there wasn't any manned enterance where I was, we just drove through. Are they now going to build and man hundreds of additional guard posts? Really, what's the terroristic value of a grove of trees again?

"Ah Akbar, we will show them. We will burn down the big maple tree. Have Omar and Ralph suicide bomb the tulip bed. America will soon tremble at our audacity."

Right.

Then, here's another question. What about those of us who can't get a passport? Not because we're criminals, or suspected terrorists, but just can't get one. Can't afford it, or are barred because we're behind on child support, or have bad debt issues? Where is the security risk there again?

Stupid polititians, doing stupid things, so that stupid people will thing that they are doing real work.

 

[Steel Tiger]

That's a whole different arguement, but from all my research, the abuses we've been seeing here these last years would never have been allowed to happen under the Confederate government.

That's interesting to hear. I'll have to look into that.

Another point - I was recently at national park....there wasn't any manned enterance where I was, we just drove through. Are they now going to build and man hundreds of additional guard posts? Really, what's the terroristic value of a grove of trees again?

"Ah Akbar, we will show them. We will burn down the big maple tree. Have Omar and Ralph suicide bomb the tulip bed. America will soon tremble at our audacity.".

Looks like National Park security could be the growth industry of the next few years. It has always struck me as odd that you guys have manned entrances to National Parks. This is only because we don't, you just go in.

Then, here's another question. What about those of us who can't get a passport? Not because we're criminals, or suspected terrorists, but just can't get one. Can't afford it, or are barred because we're behind on child support, or have bad debt issues? Where is the security risk there again?

Stupid polititians, doing stupid things, so that stupid people will thing that they are doing real work.

This seems to be something that will divide the US in two ways. The first is obviously between those states which issue Real IDs and those that don't. The other division, as you point out, would seem to be between those who can acquire a passport and those who can't.

I wonder, has anyone thought about anything regarding this issue?


A number of times here in Australia has the government of the day put forward a proposal for a National ID card. I actually have nothing against a Federally issued ID card as long as that is all it is. But that's never the case is it? They always want to attach some other data to it, whether it be taxation or medical details.

Sukerkin nailed it when he pointed out that the steep and slippery slope to totalitarianism that results when an identification system stops being something to help you navigate through society and becomes something you need to be part of the society.

 

[Makalakumu]

That's a whole different arguement, but from all my research, the abuses we've been seeing here these last years would never have been allowed to happen under the Confederate government.

Bob, I would really appreciate any sources or even a whole new thread on that subject so I could learn some more. I am almost completely ignorant on this tangent.

Another point - I was recently at national park....there wasn't any manned enterance where I was, we just drove through. Are they now going to build and man hundreds of additional guard posts? Really, what's the terroristic value of a grove of trees again?

"Ah Akbar, we will show them. We will burn down the big maple tree. Have Omar and Ralph suicide bomb the tulip bed. America will soon tremble at our audacity."

Right.

What is the point? That's a good question. This effectively does nothing to protect us from any sort of terrorist. However, it does serve as a way to get us more used to the idea of checkpoints. The psychology behind it is ingenious. By associating the concept with something pleasurable (like vacation), we begin our introduction much like pavlov's dog. Soon, it will be no big deal to whip out your papers on the highway (homeland security money has been devoted or this very task!) or on your way to the grocery store or on the way to school etc...

It all starts with psychologically delivering this system in the most efficient manner possible.

Then, here's another question. What about those of us who can't get a passport? Not because we're criminals, or suspected terrorists, but just can't get one. Can't afford it, or are barred because we're behind on child support, or have bad debt issues? Where is the security risk there again?

You become a new form of untermensch. I can see certain classes of Americans being classified exactly the same as "guest workers" because of some foul or another. In essence, you will be denied all of the protections and rights that most americans now enjoy...OSHA, Minimum Wage, Social Security, etc...

Stupid polititians, doing stupid things, so that stupid people will thing that they are doing real work.

Don't make this mistake. Don't convince yourself that these people are stupid and that there is no agenda behind all of this ********. The people who are making these laws are the Elite. They have been educated at the top schools in the country and they have had all of the resources necessary in terms of education, to give them all of the information they need. These people are shaping a longer term agenda that will roll back any progress that the average person has made in the last 250 years.

"Fear is the weapon of the elite to convince us that we are sheep."

 

[Steel Tiger]

Don't make this mistake. Don't convince yourself that these people are stupid and that there is no agenda behind all of this ********. The people who are making these laws are the Elite. They have been educated at the top schools in the country and they have had all of the resources necessary in terms of education, to give them all of the information they need. These people are shaping a longer term agenda that will roll back any progress that the average person has made in the last 250 years.

"Fear is the weapon of the elite to convince us that we are sheep."

This is a very good point. Earlier I asked if anyone thought about anything regarding this issue and I suppose they did. Themselves and their friends. These people are quite foresighted in many regards - they are looking decades into the future for themselves and their children. Unfortunately their superiority complex makes them overlook the millions of people who can stop their future coming to fruition. If these people are not evil they are very close to it.

 

[Makalakumu]

This is a very good point. Earlier I asked if anyone thought about anything regarding this issue and I suppose they did. Themselves and their friends. These people are quite foresighted in many regards - they are looking decades into the future for themselves and their children. Unfortunately their superiority complex makes them overlook the millions of people who can stop their future coming to fruition. If these people are not evil they are very close to it.

Sooner or later, people are going to have to make a stand. Somehow, somewhere, but not in the US. There are just too many irrational people floating around. 85 million evangelicals gives you an idea of what we are dealing with over here. These people out sheep the sheep on a regular basis just because of their penchent for taking whatever is thrown at them on faith alone.

Lest I seem to biased for one side, I feel compelled to bring up the other. The "left" has its own golden calves, namely in the form of the New York Times and other like publications, and they just as religiously swallow that codswallop as easily as any bible beater.

So, where can you make a difference? In places where you can do it at a local level. You need to find places where you are still allowed to live how you wish and where you can make a decent living and resist the efforts by the elite to control you. In places with smaller politics, this is easier because one voice makes more of a difference.

For everyone else, our only hope is civil disobedience on a massive scale. Do not take the card. Do not take the chip. Start your own currency if you have to. Hopefully where you live they don't have trillions invested in the military.

 

[michaeledward]

"Ah Akbar, we will show them. We will burn down the big maple tree. Have Omar and Ralph suicide bomb the tulip bed. America will soon tremble at our audacity."

As I mentioned in another thread, I am currently reading a new book called 'Islamophobia'.

Even in jest, comments such as this (the use of Ralph, noted), we continue to propogate the stereotype and caricature of Islam and Muslims. The authors of the book tell us that those of us named 'Bob', and 'Mike', and 'John' are living with the normative. So we do not realize that using Omar, Akbar, and suicide bomb, as toxic language.

I am as outraged about this national park, passport idea as is upnorthkyosa, but I am even more scared of the idea that we can so easily slip into language that expands negative stereotypes.

Further, this bill seems aimed much more at the 'illegal immigration' group than the 'terrorist with global reach' group. It may be a clever disguise, but the political attack here may be aimed more at Pedro and Jose, than Mohammed and Osama.

 

[Makalakumu]

As I mentioned in another thread, I am currently reading a new book called 'Islamophobia'.

Even in jest, comments such as this (the use of Ralph, noted), we continue to propogate the stereotype and caricature of Islam and Muslims. The authors of the book tell us that those of us named 'Bob', and 'Mike', and 'John' are living with the normative. So we do not realize that using Omar, Akbar, and suicide bomb, as toxic language.

I am as outraged about this national park, passport idea as is upnorthkyosa, but I am even more scared of the idea that we can so easily slip into language that expands negative stereotypes.

Further, this bill seems aimed much more at the 'illegal immigration' group than the 'terrorist with global reach' group. It may be a clever disguise, but the political attack here may be aimed more at Pedro and Jose, than Mohammed and Osama.

I am definitely sensitive to the fact that very language that we use is poisonous, and I think that Bob is too, hence his use of Ralph, but I think that you really need to consider that this legislation was not aimed at any other group but the average american citizen.

People involved in these types of decisions don't think in straight lines. Their thoughts more resemble a web where the desired consequence dovetails nicely a few strands down from what is publisized.

We have ample amounts of history that tells us that our government acts like this. Look at the creation of the Federal Reserve, for instance. The bottom line is that I sense the tendrils of the Elite snaking their way into this matter, just like I see them snaking their way into the homeland security funds that are rebuilding many of the highways in my area. The checkpoints are unmistakable because I know what to look for.

In 2008, when the RealID Act comes into play, we really are going to see a separation of two classes of people. People with the IDs are going to have much more priviledge then the people without them. And there won't be any negative consequences to that other then what you choose. It will seem like the most logical decision to get the ID. It will just make your life so much easier.

And that is exactly how they will introduce the biometric IDs and the chips.

They'll build the system against you until you have no choice...that is, unless you actually have the ability to affect the system.

Which isn't possible here. I'd be shot a hundred times by all sorts of magic bullets fired from lone assassins standing on the ****ing moon because the people in this country excercise their common sense.

"I can see a train comin' and it just keeps on comin..."

Bob Dylan

 

[Bob Hubbard]

8 years into this grand experiment called MartialTalk, and I've found I care less and less for being "Politically Correct". Been smacked around too many times by folks I've held a hand out to, y'know?

But, my use of names was deliberate here. The current regime has allowed disinformation to linger, so that the average American thinks we invaded Iraq because Sadamn took out the WTC. Long forgotten by most is Osama or the fact that those responsible were Saudi, not Iraqi. Ignored is the fact that the Oklahoma City bombing wasn't done from some guy taking orders from a mole in Afghanistan, but was some jackoff from NY with a bug up his ***, with all the ID and naturalized US Citizenship. We're trained to react with fear to anything Middle Eastern, be it clothing, names, religion or language. Ignore the fact that terror is colorblind and could care less about which invisible person you pray to, and you run the real risk of some "nothing-to-lose" middle class yuppy spawn blowing up a high school for ***** and giggles.

The Powers wish to put in the Real ID thing.
"It will stop terrorists" they cry.
Last I read, Tim McVeigh was eligible for a US Passport when he detonated that truck bomb.

"It will help us stop the bad guys!"
Tell me again what all the existing laws and ID checks did to stop the Columbine masacre? Oh, nothing that was what.

"We won't abuse the information."
Right. Like all those security and data breeches of governement agencies were prevented? Oh that's right, you bastards leek data like a net leeks water.

"We'll safeguard it!"
Right. How many laptops do government agents lose each year that aren't recovered again?

"You can trust us"
How many lies are told by politicians each year again?

Federal Income tax was supposed to be short term. Sales taxes were supposed to be temporary. Airport security increased and our borders were supposed to be safer since 9/11/01. No child was to be left behind!
All lies. All trust betrayed.

There is a legitimate good idea to standardized ID across the country. But it should be a set of guidelines to be followed, a database to querry (like credit cards), and a Good/Bad reply.

I still see no reason to require ID to visit a damn park.
I'll just keep sneaking in anyway.



sidebar: Confederacy, Second US Civil War, Revisiting the Past
Researching the Past - An examination of the concept of Secession
A Second American Civil War?

The War of Northern Aggression (U.S. Civil War).

 

[jks9199]

My understanding of the Real ID act is that it simply standardizes the criteria and biometric data used in driver's license or walker's IDs. This is something that's needed... There are 50 states, DC, and the several territories. Each has it's own format for driver's license and for reporting the info on the driver's license. Get's pretty confusing; I remember more than one time I had to study a license to figure out the expiration date or birth date, or more.

It's also saying that, if you want federal services, you need adequate ID. If your state's driver's license meets the criteria... No problem. You're covered. If not... you need a passport or some other acceptable ID. Nobody's being mandated to obtain any particular ID; you can live off the grid if you want. But, with that, comes the "cost" of not having access to the services of the grid.

Oh... and securing the National Parks? Virtually impossible. Consider the Shenandoah National Park alone; there are people who live within it, on family farms. There are hundreds and hundreds of miles of borders with multiple crossing points... It just plain couldn't be done... Hell, Great Falls National Park is a tiny fraction of the size, and you couldn't do it there.

 

[michaeledward]

Bob, my comment is not about whether it is politically correct or not. As you state in your post, "We're trained to react with fear to anything Middle Eastern". My point was that you choice of names was reinforcing that training. I don't think you are the average American. And I don't think you should reinforce the disinformation campaign.

Constant Vigilance is the price of liberty. Pick your source - I like Picard, but I understand Moody is also a big fan of the phrase as.

We must be vigilant toward our own behaviors, as well.