Fat

[teekin]

Ohhhh Noooo SSmurf isn't getting off so easy. Mr. Smurf I am heavily addicted, hardwired in fact to a number of psycho-active drugs. My personality changes in a big way when I take these, (or if I don't ) and I do so to make my life easier. Could I give them up, yah, I guess so, but you know what, I don't want to. Judge away! They do make my life easier, and if that in YVHO makes me weak so be it.
lori

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Certainly, in some instances, by sheer will power, some may overcome personal issues. Shades of grey I suppose. But I'll also stick with what mental health practicioners know - that addiction is a disease.

...which causes one to suffer a weakness in a specific area or set of areas, and generally requires more than sheer willpower to overcome.

In any case, the issue of fat is not generally one of compulsive eating or addiction. It is generally the result of our individual lifestyles, be they chosen, thrust upon us, or a bit of both.

Daniel

 

[bluekey88]

Yeah, there was a different intent of this thread wasn't there?

MA training alone has a weird point of diminishing return for a lot of practitioners. At first the movements are alien and the body struggles to perform them correctly so the work outs are a lot harder. As the Art gets internalized the movements get quite a bit easier, this coupled with the fact that in most martial arts classes there is a lot of start and stop activity to allow the teacher to explain things it makes MA alone pretty poor as far as a cardio activity goes. As silly as I found the whole Tae Bo thing, I tried it a couple f times and I gotta admit that its a good workout. I think that adding more cardio elements o most martial arts classes would help.

Mark

Having said my piece on the other stuff...I will say that while MA activities did get me in shape inbitially...their biggest benefit was the motivation they provided to engage in other health related activities. In order to do well in the MA, I needed better fitness...that led me to go ot the gym more and lift and such...to enagge in more cardio, tha tin turn made me look harder at my diet and make changes there....that imporved my MA and led to new goals (like competing) which led to betetr training and better diet...etc. Wouldn't have bothered with the gym and diet were it not for MA.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Bruno@MT]

I would never call addicts weak minded. What I would say is that they need more than average willpower to stay away from whatever it is they are addicted to.

For example, I am alleric to strawberry. I once had a violent allergic reaction to it that could have killed me. I don't even remember what it tastes like, but I find the smell alone revolting. I don't need much willpower to stay away from strawberries, even when I am hungry.
Otoh, someone who thinks strawberry is the best taste in the world would have to exert a lot of willpower to stay away from a plate of strawberries when he is hungry.

1 scenario: 2 different persons, 2 different amounts of willpower.
Whether your vice is the taste of good food / drink, or the chemical reaction of your brain to chocolate, or something else... if you have to eat or drink to do it, then you have to have much more willpower than the average Joe in order to stay lean.

 

[terryl965]

Here is another twist to this fit **** you all talk about because of fat people, they all should be in shape because they are Martial Artist but yet I see so many that smoke like a ****ing smoke house and drink until they cannot see. Does this not have any less value to ones health? Does this not cause liver failure, lung disease and other long term effects? Why is it lets attack the overwieght people, it makes me sick when I see a instructor light up but who am I to say stop they are adults and choose to live there life in this manner. What about the ones that take enhancement drugs to build that chisel body and please do not tell me it is all natural, does that not contane long term effects as well? So please that your disgusting attitudes about instructors being over wieght and put it where the sun does not shine. I for one would like to see some of you when you have been beat on for 40 pkus years and the training we did back in those days would be consider child abuse, OK I am done and off my soapbox and will get back in line with the thread just had to point some stuff out.

Have a wonderful smoke free, alcohol free and fat free day

 

[geezer]

...which causes one to suffer a weakness in a specific area or set of areas, and generally requires more than sheer willpower to overcome.

In any case, the issue of fat is not generally one of compulsive eating or addiction. It is generally the result of our individual lifestyles, be they chosen, thrust upon us, or a bit of both.

Daniel

I'd have to agree.

BTW-- regarding the relationship between "willpower" and addiction. My personal observations have been different from Mark's. My big brother is a tough little guy. He's 5'3" and will always be my "Big Brother" --that pretty well describes his achievements. He was a State Champion wrestler, an Alpinist who did some hairy-*** ascents including big faces in the Alps and Sea-Cliffs in England. Academically, he worked his way through an Ivy League education and a fellowship to Oxsford, and career wise he has done well too. Growing up, I was never tough enough mentally or physically to keep up with him. He was always the guy with the willpower.

On the other hand, he has also struggled through alcoholism and tobacco addiction in a way that I never had to. I'm way more laid back. In my youth I drank, smoked cigarettes, used weed, and made other stupid choices. But when I matured a bit, I left all that behind. It was no big deal. Didn't take a lot of willpower. Heck I don't even have the willpower to keep the lawn mowed!

My point? Sometimes people with a lot of willpower and drive, who are leaders and risk-takers struggle more with addictive behaviors than the rest of us. It's not just about mental toughness or will.

 

[shihansmurf]

Mark,
Thanks for your service. What is your branch and M.O.S.? Are you in braces for mobility? Do you have P.T.S.D.? Oh wait, you are cured......so you were cured of a mental disease that there is no cure for.....only denial. I have been dealing with it since 94 so don't tell me. Anyway, there is no x-marine unless it was adishonorable. Funny, In Hati etc. we went in lit the place up and secured the area so the members of the Army could set up tents and serve chow. The problem with us strong willed military folk is that we just have to be right. I was that way until I left the Marines 12 yrs. ago and see how the P.T.S.D. wards and prostethics units are filled with the Marines who were fired upon. Combat is indeed ugly, I know I have that t-shirt plus some. I was the N.C.O. that got the letters from mom saying "Keep Johnny Safe." Yep my attitude on mental toughness is more "Survival" than "Hard Core". But I digress, I am not going to have a pee up the tree contest with you. I just know that living through a helicopter crash and being one of the only survivors after being shot down in africa is a big deal.

Matt,
Thank you for your service and your sacrifice. No matter what else transpires in this conversation between you and I, know that I consider you to be one of my brothers, like anyone else that has ever worn the uniform.

I am Staff Sergeant(P) in the Army. Nowadays I work in M.I., during my first two deployments I was a 19D, cav scout. I don't have braces, although I do have a pin in my knee(Track roll over), and a plate in my skull(IED, I got to be unconsious for three weeks from that one), and I took a bullet through the right side of my chest. I still suffer with PTSD. I simply took control of my eating habits. It was difficult, but I was able to do so. The compulsive eating was symptomatic of the problem, it was how I, as the weak willed piece of crap that I was being at the time, coped. I decided to stop being a slave. I had a rude wake up call, I got to see exactly how out of shape I had become. It was a galvanizing moment for me. It isn't denial...so , to paraphrase you, I've been living with this since 2003, so don't tell me.

Am I in denial, no. I still have a few other associated problems with the PTSD that I struggle to work through, I have a damn good handle on this particular problem though. But maybe I don't, after all since according to most of the upset people in this thread force of will and self-discipline don't have any bearing on our habits I must still be compulsively eating. Its good to know that all of the work I out into changing this problem is moot.
We are not automotons, all of our actions are controled by choice, therefore our will and self-control determine what we do.

Wait, of course that can't be the case. Somene else was holding me down and forcing me to eat cheeseburgers. Man, I'm going find that guy and have a talk with him.



I was in Fallujah in 2004 when we turned the AO over to the Marines. Funny that, for all of the bravado of the USMC, most of the heavy lifting has been born by us.Nice dig with the Haiti reference.

I didn't imply that your service, and the helicopter crash wasn't a big deal. Before you mentioned them, I didn't know about them. Hell, I didn't even know that you had been a marine untill this conversation. That's the point, though. You and I don't know each other. The fact that you elected to fire off a condescending, "Some of us served our country, went to combat, and seen things you couldn't possibly fathom", comment, given my service pissed me off so I fired back. The arrogance in your attitude was stunning, yet you have the gall to chastise me for having a "superiority complex".

Pot, meet kettle.

Also spare me the lost land mines, bombs, etc in the middle east. Their is more unaccounted for in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo than anywhere else in the world. It was true then and it is true now.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, but in couterpoint, Iraq has more IED attacks and direct fire casualties than anywhere in the world. For someone that didn't want to get in a pee up the tree contest, you seemd to fire of a really interesting factoid. You've been to Bosnia, yes?

Holding people accountable for their own physical fitness isnt your job, you thinking so makes you a jackass. So tell me man, what's your b.m.i.?

Actually, for a platoon of 22 people that I serve as the platoon sergeant for, holding people accountable for their physical fitness(to include meeting height/weight standards) is part of my job.Thanks for letting me off the hook for that, though. I'll call up my First Sergeant and let him know I can't pt my soldiers because matt.s, says it isn't my job.

It is also to a lesser extent, part of my job for the students I teach shotokan to, what with martial arts being a physical endevor and all. I know its heretical around these parts to think that a martial arts teacher should be in shape and expect his students to be so, but I tend to that.

Now, other than those people, I agree with you. I couldn't care less what people do to themselves. As I've said many times already in this thread I don't go up to random fat people and launch into tirades about how they are harming themselves with their habits. I leave drunks alone unless they are posing an immediate danger to themselves or others(i.e. I won't let one drive, for example) but I've put more than one of my soldiers into the Army Substance Abuse Program due to problem drinking. I leave drug addicts alone, unless they are posing a danger to me or others. The only time I express my opinion to these sorts of ppeople are when I am asked for input and assistance. See, I think the best way to help someone isn't to sugar coat the facts of what they are doing. Making them accountale for their actions is, while not pleasent, an absolute requisite for them to affect the changes that they are looking to facilitate.

If this means I'm a jackass, the so be it.

My B.M.I. is 13%. I was at 24% a year ago. I want to hit 10% Whats yours?

Ya know, unless you are an olympic champion or Mr. Olympia, world champion of something you have no room to talk.

Sure I do. I have lots of room to talk, I was one of the fat, slovenly out of shape tubs that took positive control of his diet and exercise habits and was was acordingly able to affect significant change in my fitness and health. The mindset of needing to be at the pinacle of performance in a field inorder to be able to offer critique, advice, and example is asanine.

Let me ask you, you were a judo player, right. Were you an olympian? Was your coach? Maybe, but if not does your lack of olympian or world champion status mean that you are not qualified to teach osoto-gari? How about offer training tips? Or tell a less experienced judo player when they are making errors?

As an aside if the requirements to be able to criticize behavior in others is peak performance, what are your qualifications for critiquing my viewpoint?

I was a member of the Marine Judo and Wrestling teams, I decided to try and help not shun others. This is what I think you were doing.

Impressive. I've won several Army combative tournaments, and two Golden Gloves titles in my youth, so you know what that means?

Absolutely nothing in refrence to our discussion.

For someone that is dead set against a pissing contest you seem to wanna pull out our tool an awfull lot. Simple fact of the matter is this, I don't see things in the way you. I think that people are capable of controling themselve and are not slaves to their problems. You sure don't seem to think that way. It has nothing to do with shunning people, I am willing to do whatever I can to help people that ask for it, I just don't think that the best way is patting them on the back and saying "There, there, your problems are not your responsibility. Someone else did all this to you. Maybe we can find a way to help you that doesn't involve you being accountable for your actions."

That is your superiority complex coming out.

I seem to be in good company.


Mark

 

[shihansmurf]

Having said my piece on the other stuff...I will say that while MA activities did get me in shape inbitially...their biggest benefit was the motivation they provided to engage in other health related activities. In order to do well in the MA, I needed better fitness...that led me to go ot the gym more and lift and such...to enagge in more cardio, tha tin turn made me look harder at my diet and make changes there....that imporved my MA and led to new goals (like competing) which led to betetr training and better diet...etc. Wouldn't have bothered with the gym and diet were it not for MA.

Peace,
Erik

Good point, the competition side of the MA is a great motivator for getting into a good fitness routine. Glad to hear your MA training lead to halthier lifestyle choices.
Mark

 

[JourneymanDave]

I think I was somewhat misinterpreted, what I am talking about is 10-15% body fat here rather than elite athletes around 5% or less. Also your fitness and stamina being pretty much equal either way.

also, just an opinion here, but I don't think its really fair to compare the addictions of compulsive eating, versus a substance that is physically and mentally as say heroin. how many people have lost their jobs, homes, and families to compulsive eating really?
Yes, it was an elective choice to begin using in the first place, but stopping is a whole other ball park.

I speak from personal experience as I am a recovering addict.
I have never really heard of anyone being able to stop using using willpower alone. Its not about shirking accountability or responsibility, its just that perhaps you are looking at the wrong kind of willpower. If one wants to stop using it takes tremendous willpower and courage to admit it and ask for help.

The Japanese have a quote I like on this

First, the man takes a drink,
then the drink takes a drink,
and then the drink takes the man.

If you really do still feel that it just boils down willpower alone,
at least try to be openminded enough to go to an open AA/NA meeting (you do not have to be an addict to attend open meetings) and voice this opinion.

you will not be attacked, as this is one of the biggest misconceptions on addiction out there.

just remember "You can't measure the world by your own yardstick." -Yiddish proverb

 

[Cryozombie]

also, just an opinion here, but I don't think its really fair to compare the addictions of compulsive eating, versus a substance that is physically and mentally as say heroin. how many people have lost their jobs, homes, and families to compulsive eating really?

Lets compare complusive eating to sex addiction instead, then I'd have somthing to say. Not that I am addicted to sex mind you, but I love to eat and I love to ****, and it would be a big toss up if I had to give up one or the other... both make me extremely happy in a world where little else does. And if that Makes me weak, cuz I dont find happiness in... I dunno... fishing... then so be it.

Which begs the question, should one choose to be Fat and content, or skinny and miserable, to be socially acceptable?

 

[JourneymanDave]

haha, I like the way you think cryozombie, but I would think bumpin uglies all the time would keep you skinny and happy

I do agree that people should care alot less of what people think of them.
Haters tend to hate themselves the most

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Here is a question for everyone here, regardless of how you feel about the underlying causes of weight gain:

What do you mean when you say that either yourself or someone else is "fat"?

Everyone was saying how fat Britney Spears had gotten when she did her MTV appearance last year and showed her midrift. By my estimation, she was still smokin' hot and looked perfectly fine. She was not hanging out of her clothes; she looked fit.

Jonathan Frakes, towards the end of Star Trek: The Next Generation, was a bit chunky, but I certainly would not have called him 'fat'. I would say that he had gained some weight that was not muscle, but so what? He sure was not ready to be Santa Claus.

John Goodman in his role last year as "Pops" in Speed Racer, however, was fat. I still think that the man is a good actor and seeing his name on the marquee is a good sign when I am considering a movie. I cannot say that I have ever seen him turn in a bad performance. But yes, he is fat.

My point is that being fit does not mean being ripped. According to my doctor, I am extremely fit. When I raced bicycles and went to karate class five times a week and worked out in addition back when I was twenty, I had a body fat percentage of 5. Today, it is definitely not five. I do not know what my BMI was back then; I do not know that the term even existed. Now, it is 18.5 roughly.

My ideal weight is supposedly 180. At 6'4, 180 is skinny. At 202, I look good, feel good, and according to my doctor, I should get my full 120 years if I keep doing what I am doing.

I am not a health nut; I try to eat healthily, but I like to snack here and there and I do like the occasional cheesecake.

As a culture (in the US, at least), we placed such a premium on being thin. Not just fit, but specifically "thin." Really, we do not need to look like sticks to be fit. BMI has come up in this conversation, and honestly, BMI is not a good measure of overall fitness. Not to say that it is useless, but it is not a measure of fitness in and of itself. You can be skinny and be woefully out of shape too. You can be a body builder and have a comparatively horrible BMI as well.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Well I am fat at 5' 9" and coming in at 238, but I am down from about 270 and I am fit as far as working out everyday. I guess people would love to see everybody rib cage and only eat about 70 calories a day. I know back when I was thirty I was around 164 but over the last twenty years bad habilts and health issue have really been bad on me. It takes me longer to loose a pound than it does to gain one but that is life.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I’m 5’6”, 190#, ideally I’d like to be 10 – 15# lighter. I weight train, run and do MA. My Dr says that not to worry about BMI because I carry so much muscle. 15 years ago I was 200# and my waist was 4” smaller…..good old days…. Sigh….

At the gym I see people of all shapes and sizes working out. Weights, running whatever, and I think to myself, good for them. Unlike so many people they are trying to stay healthy. Being healthy is more important than being in shape, IMHO.

I know it sounds strange but, you can almost tell if someone is overweight and healthy vs. someone overweight and unhealthy, there is a difference that seems to be projected by them.

Someone once told me, it doesn’t matter what you do, as long as you do something. That holds true in everything we do, don’t sit around and moan, don’t wish you were smarter, fitter, healthier, had a better job, better education, get up off your bum and do something/anything.

As long as you try, you’re healthy.

 

[JourneymanDave]

I personally don't like BMI much at all, it doesn't take alot into account, such as muscle mass. I feel that body fat percentage is a much more reliable measuring stick so to speak.

I grabbed this chart straight off of wikipedia and it sounds reasonable to me:

Description:----Women----------Men
Essential fat----10–12%-------2–4%
Athletes---------14–20%-------6–13%
Fitness----------21–24%-------14–17%
Acceptable------25–31%------18–25%
Overweight-----32-41%-------26-37%
Obese-----------42%+---------38%+

understand though, that each person is different so it varies, but I think its real decent.

Fat to me is like Garfield the cat. Or being too lazy to reach for the remote that fell between your feet.

 

[shihansmurf]

Here is a question for everyone here, regardless of how you feel about the underlying causes of weight gain:

What do you mean when you say that either yourself or someone else is "fat"?

Everyone was saying how fat Britney Spears had gotten when she did her MTV appearance last year and showed her midrift. By my estimation, she was still smokin' hot and looked perfectly fine. She was not hanging out of her clothes; she looked fit.

Jonathan Frakes, towards the end of Star Trek: The Next Generation, was a bit chunky, but I certainly would not have called him 'fat'. I would say that he had gained some weight that was not muscle, but so what? He sure was not ready to be Santa Claus.

John Goodman in his role last year as "Pops" in Speed Racer, however, was fat. I still think that the man is a good actor and seeing his name on the marquee is a good sign when I am considering a movie. I cannot say that I have ever seen him turn in a bad performance. But yes, he is fat.

My point is that being fit does not mean being ripped. According to my doctor, I am extremely fit. When I raced bicycles and went to karate class five times a week and worked out in addition back when I was twenty, I had a body fat percentage of 5. Today, it is definitely not five. I do not know what my BMI was back then; I do not know that the term even existed. Now, it is 18.5 roughly.

My ideal weight is supposedly 180. At 6'4, 180 is skinny. At 202, I look good, feel good, and according to my doctor, I should get my full 120 years if I keep doing what I am doing.

I am not a health nut; I try to eat healthily, but I like to snack here and there and I do like the occasional cheesecake.

As a culture (in the US, at least), we placed such a premium on being thin. Not just fit, but specifically "thin." Really, we do not need to look like sticks to be fit. BMI has come up in this conversation, and honestly, BMI is not a good measure of overall fitness. Not to say that it is useless, but it is not a measure of fitness in and of itself. You can be skinny and be woefully out of shape too. You can be a body builder and have a comparatively horrible BMI as well.

Daniel

I gotta say I agree with you 100%

I'm going to weigh back in on this issue in a way that is hopefully less incendiary. Way back in my first post, I spoke about the fact that the biggest issue for me was the way that the extra weight was impacting my performance of my martial art and my physical fitness, which is a component of my job. I think that that is the most important factor there.
A few extra pound aren't that big of a deal to a martial artist provided that he can still execute the skill set at the level thet they are wanting to be able to.

That being said, an overweight martial artist that will assuredly perform the movements of his art better by shedding the pounds, presuming that the weight is made out of fat, he will also be better able to perform for extended periods of time compared to what he could with the extra pounds of fat.

Using those caveats, I would say that to answer your question, that I don't think that there is a single magic definition of "FAT" that applies to every single individual or athlete. The term isn't universal or easy to nail down. It varies by the individual. Your examplea above relect that quite well. Some people can carry some extra weight without a serious impact on their health and performance, some cannot. I can't, I think that most can't , but there are some that can.

I think that we, as a culture do place an unhealty obsession on thinness as the yardstick and it is a polarizing issue, as this thread illustrates. I tend to fall in the camp of health obsessed, I know this, but I don't think that the skeleton with a bit of skin stretched across it look that is, to be honest deadly, is the ideal that anyone should be trying for. A ripped physique is a nice fitness goal but hardly neccessary to possess to be in shape. Like most things a bit of common sense and perspective helps a great deal, and exercise can become just as dectructive and obsessive of a habit as anything else to include overeating, drinking, and drugs(especially as Terry pointed out when performance enhancing chemicals are added into the mix).Self control in this, as in everthing else, is essential.

Cheesecake is awesome, I just don't indulge in the amounts I onced did. Although a couple of weeks ago I got introduced to Key Lime Cheesecake and I could see how that could spell trouble for me.

Mark

 

[shihansmurf]

Here is another twist to this fit **** you all talk about because of fat people, they all should be in shape because they are Martial Artist but yet I see so many that smoke like a ****ing smoke house and drink until they cannot see. Does this not have any less value to ones health? Does this not cause liver failure, lung disease and other long term effects? Why is it lets attack the overwieght people, it makes me sick when I see a instructor light up but who am I to say stop they are adults and choose to live there life in this manner. What about the ones that take enhancement drugs to build that chisel body and please do not tell me it is all natural, does that not contane long term effects as well? So please that your disgusting attitudes about instructors being over wieght and put it where the sun does not shine. I for one would like to see some of you when you have been beat on for 40 pkus years and the training we did back in those days would be consider child abuse, OK I am done and off my soapbox and will get back in line with the thread just had to point some stuff out.

Have a wonderful smoke free, alcohol free and fat free day

I agree with you on the smoking and excessive drinking issue. My biggests problem with martial art instructors that are overweigt comes when they stand in front of a class and tout all of these benefits of martial art training like fitness and such wile being grossly over weight. On a similar note, I have a problem with any instructor standing up infron of a class and preaching about the discipline that one can learn fom the study of the martial arts whilst displaying a gross level of indiscipline in their own life, it is the hypocricy of it that bothers me. I was guilty of myself so I affected the needed changes.

Mark

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Here is another twist to this fit **** you all talk about because of fat people, they all should be in shape because they are Martial Artist but yet I see so many that smoke like a ****ing smoke house and drink until they cannot see. Does this not have any less value to ones health? Does this not cause liver failure, lung disease and other long term effects? Why is it lets attack the overwieght people, it makes me sick when I see a instructor light up but who am I to say stop they are adults and choose to live there life in this manner.

For one, not not all of us are saying the same thing on this subject.

And since this thread was specifically about fat, it is unlikely that the subject of smoking and alcohol would come up, though as a segue, beer, ale, malt liquor, and some other alcoholic beverages contain a lot of empty calories and will certainly contribute to a weight problem.

So, if you (the general you, not you Terry) knock a few back after class or on frequent basis, even you are not getting wasted, it is impacting your caloric intake in a big way.

Conversely, a lot of people gain weight when they quit smoking; apparently, smokers do not snack as much? Models also smoke to stay thin, as nocotine boosts the heartrate. Of course, smoking is full of its own inherent health risks.

Whether or not you are involved in martial arts, smoking is just plain silly and taking it up in the first place is just plain stupid, especially if you have taken it up within the past forty four years after they started putting surgeon general warnings on the darned packages back in 1965.

Smoking elevates the heartrate and constricts blood vessels, thus making the heart work harder. They also have an adverse effect on one's breathing. Given that circulatory and respiratory systems are both taxed in the practice of a martial art, and indeed, any athletic event, the foolishness of smoking is self evident.

But then, so what?

The fact that smoking at all and drinking too much are unhealthy does not alter the effect that excess fat has on the human body, irrespective of how well one can still practice their art.

What about the ones that take enhancement drugs to build that chisel body and please do not tell me it is all natural, does that not contane long term effects as well?

What about them? They are idiots who sacrifice their longterm health for quick benefits and competition victories, possibly risking legal consequences and sanctions from whatever organizing body they compete in.

The fact that performance enhancing drugs are illegal and unhealthy does not alter the effect that excess fat has on the human body, irrespective of how well one can still practice their art.

So please that your disgusting attitudes about instructors being over wieght and put it where the sun does not shine.

Not everyone's attitude is disgusting. To be honest, I do not know that any of the opinions expressed in this thread could be classified as disgusting, though I am not going to go through each response again to verify.

Pretty much everyone, regardless of weight, seems to agree that excess fat is usually the result of greater caloric intake than exercise and that there are some people who have a weight gain for other reasons, such as genetics, medical complications, or medication for other maladies that have the side effect of adding weight.

I also would like to point out that a good number (not a majority, but a good number) of people who overeat do so due to depression and use food to self medicate, so to speak (eating makes them feel better) and generally choose comfort foods, such as macaronni & cheese, chips, fries, etc., all of which tend to be fattening.

Someone earlier pointed out economic reasons. Healthy food costs money and if you are unable to afford it, you eat what you can and deal with the consequences.

I for one would like to see some of you when you have been beat on for 40 pkus years and the training we did back in those days would be consider child abuse,

I hear you. Though I do not have quite so many years in, I have enough to remember when that kind of training was commonplace. With the amount of training that I do, combined with my age, I do feel it and can relate.

OK I am done and off my soapbox and will get back in line with the thread just had to point some stuff out.

Well, I think that what you pointed out is certainly legitimate and indeed, is food for at least two or three threads.

Have a wonderful smoke free, alcohol free and fat free day

That is every day for smoking, as I am not nor have ever been a smoker, and most every day for drinking, as I drink very little.

As I stated earlier, the only time that I see excess weight as being an issue for a martial arts instructor to be specifically physically fit (as opposed to fit for fighting) is if the school literature touts physical fitness, specifically weight loss. And personally, I think that use of weight loss and fitness as a means of bringing in students has a negative impact on the martial arts because it brings in people who really have no intention of being competent aikidoka/hapkidoin/karateka/kendoka/taekwondoin/whatever; they just want to get into shape and do not want to go to the gym. By and large, these are the wrong type of customers unless your school is Taebo.

The above is just my opinion, though I try to be as objective as possible.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think that we, as a culture do place an unhealty obsession on thinness as the yardstick and it is a polarizing issue, as this thread illustrates. I tend to fall in the camp of health obsessed, I know this, but I don't think that the skeleton with a bit of skin stretched across it look that is, to be honest deadly, is the ideal that anyone should be trying for. A ripped physique is a nice fitness goal but hardly neccessary to possess to be in shape.

One of the problems with thinness being a yardstick is that it creates a false premise that being this is automatically being fit. Sometimes people have a false confidence just because they are thin when in fact, an overweight and seemingly fat person who exercises may have better cardio and cholestorol numbers.

Also, some people simply cannot be thin. They are not built for it and will not attain it. Not that they will be 'fat', but they will always be stocky. My older son is like that. He is lighter than I am and almost the same height, but a stockier build and will always have a bit of a chin. He lifts regularly and goes to class multiple times a week and practices at home, but he just cannot get ripped like he wants.

Speaking being ripped, human beings are not supposed to be ripped. We carry a degree of fat in order to have reserves for when we need to exert ourselves more than usual for an extended period of time and to provide some insulation.

Without some fat, our bodies will canibalize themselves. And if you live in a colder climate and do not like being cold, a ripped look is counterproductive unless you are alright with a higher heating bill.

Also, fat is not automatically unattractive. Some of the most attractive women that I know and have known would be considered fat by most people, and at least two were definitely fat. At the same time, being thin does not automatically make one good looking either.

Lastly, as we age, it is more difficult to burn calories. For some women, menopause causes changes that make it impossible for them to be 'thin' afterward, even with a good diet and a lot of hard work. For people in general, as we age, our bodies not only burn calories less efficiently, but for us MA-ists, accumulated injuries can also make certain exercises less feasible. Not to mention arthritis and other maladies that make working out more challenging.

Really, it is important to be as healthy as you can be for the size that you are and then establish more specific goals from there.

Daniel

 

[zDom]

Some of the most attractive women that I know and have known would be considered fat by most people, and at least two were definitely fat.

But would they not have been even BETTER looking if they had a leaner, more toned build?