Faith Based Charities

[rmcrobertson]

We pay for in vitro fertilization--why not that? We pay for chiropractic services--why not that? We pay for the health consequences of people's "lifestyle," choices (obesity, stress, diet) all the time--why not that?

And this thread is about demanding that people like me pay for advertisements for other people's religious beliefs and institutions--so...?

One of the things I notice with all the yahooing about faith-based charities is that a) funny, it never seems to be a matter of getting funds to some Catholic school that has money troubles keeping going in inner cities; b) funny, it always seems to be a charity from some constituency that Dubya wants to placate that we hear about; c) funny, it never seems to be, say, an Islamic charity that we're going to give money to (though if memory serves, Dubya mentioned one on TV), and d) funny, when an OC minister tried to run a soup kitchen and job counseling service out of the basement of his church, his good faith-based neighbors ran the whole thing right out of town.

I guess faith-based charities are great as long as they serve to keep them po' folks far, far away...

 

[Nightingale]

I've never heard about a government program for IVF... most insurance companies won't even cover it!

Chiropractic work can have a legitimate health benefit. Makes sense for insurance companies to cover stuff like that. Ditto for obesity/stress stuff, but it makes MORE sense here to cover personal trainers and nutritionists and psychologists so the problem doesn't become a surgical one to begin with.

 

[Cruentus]

We pay for in vitro fertilization--why not that? We pay for chiropractic services--why not that? We pay for the health consequences of people's "lifestyle," choices (obesity, stress, diet) all the time--why not that?

We are talking about government not insurance. I have never heard of Government paying for any of those things.

 

[rmcrobertson]

In the first place, the insurance companies that DO pay something for IVF (Kaiser does in California; BC does not) pass those costs along to everybody. In the second, government programs such as Medicaid often end up spending a great deal on the costs of long-term bad choices--like stuffing your face and never getting any exercise. In the third, a) ALL hospitals get federal and state aid in some form or another--they have to, and b) there are social costs that we all pay.

For example, because money gets thrown into stuff like stomach stapling, there is less of the pie available for things like early childhood vaccination programs.

Thanks.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
In the first place, the insurance companies that DO pay something for IVF (Kaiser does in California; BC does not) pass those costs along to everybody. In the second, government programs such as Medicaid often end up spending a great deal on the costs of long-term bad choices--like stuffing your face and never getting any exercise. In the third, a) ALL hospitals get federal and state aid in some form or another--they have to, and b) there are social costs that we all pay.

For example, because money gets thrown into stuff like stomach stapling, there is less of the pie available for things like early childhood vaccination programs.

Thanks.

Robert,

I have known 5 people to have some form of stomache (* Barritric (Spelling) *) surgery. Four of them did this and have gone on to become actice athelets, running 10K and even marathons, getting out and exercising, where they could not even do this before the surgery. In the fifth case she is in shape, not an athelet and is much older, yet is trying to set an better example for her teenage son. So that people can learn and be healthier. All of these people had to go through psych evaluations and also treatment programs that were documented and have a BMI of at least 33 or 35 or higher to be considered. Many were facing other long term issues such as heart and or kidney and diabetes issues. Yes, stuffing food into our mouths is an issue, yet in the cases I have seen personally, the people involved were doing it to become healthier for themselves and or their family. This avoid other health costs down the road.

I am 6'3" and 284 with 19.4 % body fat. I am working on lowering both the body fat and the weight. Why, because as I get older it is harder to maintain. My Doctor, harps on me about this, why because he knows I care and will listen. Other patients will not.

Oh well, good discussion so far.
:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Sorry...I am still not seeing it.

For example, because money gets thrown into stuff like stomach stapling, there is less of the pie available for things like early childhood vaccination programs.

So, someone dipping into there own pocket or even the insurance compaines pocket to get a stomach stapling. How does this translate to less money for childhood vaccination programs by the GOVERNMENT.

Are you seeing this as one whole pie: our U.S. economy? I am looking at it as 3 seperate pies: 1. personal wealth, 2. insurance, 3. government. And...I think this thread is refering to government (faith based charities).

 

[rmcrobertson]

Because at some level, every single aspect of what we laughingly call our medical system is government-financed, from medical school education through drug procurement to hospital and community clinic finance. Oh yeah, and workers' disability insurance is typically financed through state and federal programs.

As for faith-based charities---the whole issue has very little to do with delivering help or medical care. It has to do with Dubya and his cronies seeking to play, simultaneously, to African-American constituencies, to Christian fundamentalists, and to one or two other religious groups.

Much of this stuff, too, could far better be dealt with through some form of national health insurance program and some form of social justice--the need for "faith-based," clinics in this country comes from our basing access to medical care entirely on our fantasies of free-market capitalism, and many of the problems abroad are the consequence of a) five centuries of colonialism, b) our playing grabass in the Third World first with Europe and then with the Russians and now with whoknowswho for about two centuries, c) our utter, insane refusal to do anything rational about population pressure (scope out Dubya's pulling the plug on UN programs!). (Please note that I wrote, "many." People like Idi Amin certainly proved that the Third World has the talent and the resources to create much of its own misery.)

Hence, we're running around patching this bit ad that bit together.

However, if I thought that faith-based charities were something more than a flimsy cover for the ideological demands of the likes of Pat Robertson, I'd probably say, wotthehell, support 'em. Hell, pieces of my taxes go to all sorts of crazy crap I dislike--the B-2 bomber, the new Star Wars, Halliburton, loonbox drug enforcement...