Extremely Frustrated

[Jade Tigress]

Here we go again, I posted a couple years ago about the same problem when I was training Sil Lum. Now I've been training SPM for a year and same problem.

I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to applying the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:

I've been told to try and "visualize" an attack and formulate in my mind what to do. I tried that, same thing. I don't know, makes me want to just give it up, but I looove martial arts. It just seems to me the whole point of training is being lost.

It's even more frustrating because guys who have much less time in training than I do, don't have any problem with that cross over and it makes me feel like a "dumb girl". No one in class makes me feel that way. It's how I make me feel. I've been told to visualize, to continue practicing, that SPM is a difficult style to learn. I just feel like I will never get it.

How, how, how do I get past this hurdle???

 

[Andrew Green]

I don't know a great deal about how you are training, so I could be off here. But my guess is that the way you are being taught the techniques is fairly static?

You do x reps with little to know resistance / variation, move on.

If that is the case you need to to start working the middle piece a little more. Kind of like if you learnt Judo by just practicing throws, never learning grip fighitng and off balancing.

You need to isolate the technique in the situation it will occur, and spar. Once position is lost either with a successful technique or not, restart. Your partner offers minimal resistance, but increases as you get the hang of it.

One little thing at a time, worrying more about control and positioning then the actuial technique in question.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Relax. And by relax, I mean relax. Don't just get tense about whether or not you're relaxed.

Most people with that trouble are that way because they're worried about their performance. They worry that they look foolish. They worry that they're not doing a good job. They berate themselves for how they haven't progressed as far as they think they should.

Sound familiar?

The trick is just to relax. You're as good at that as you are, no better, no worse. Accept it, celebrate it and forget how good you think you ought to be. Once you've done that, you'll find it comes quickly.

Remember, every thought you have about whether or not you're flowing well is a brain cell you're not using to flow well.

 

[Kacey]

Get a partner who will help you practice, by throwing known techniques to start with. Start at a slow speed, so that you have time to process what is coming and what to do about it. Gradually increase the speed and, as that gets easier, slow down again and have your partner start throwing unplanned techniques, first slowly and with a lot of keying (so you can see what's coming before it gets there) - then slowly speed the exercise up again.

Practice is the only way around something like this... and you are far from the only person who's had this difficulty.

 

[michaeledward]

If you wish to learn how to be spontaneous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . be spontaneous.

Have a couple training partners attack you. They get to choose the attack. They don't tell you what the attack is. The one thing they need to do, is start their attacks from at least three steps away. They should not try and be sneaky about the attack, with feints and bluffs. Have them telegraph that big John Wayne Haymaker. They should be committed to their attack, with perhaps 50% to 60% speed and force. You need the read time - (If you can't read it, you can't defend against it).

You get to respond. There are no incorrect ways to respond. Just do something .... and keep doing it until they are on the ground.

 

[exile]

Excellent advice from all posters so far, Pam. Let me add just one trick that I found very useful at a Combat Hapkido seminar with Gm. Pelligrini, and have used since to good effect (and I am the world's most hopeless MAer when it comes to using new `solo' techs in a partnered situation): talk out the tech as you do it in slow motion, first solo, then with a partner slo mo, as Kacey suggested. In effect, explain to your partner what you are doing as s/he moves in as uke to attack you. What I find is that at a certain point, if I'm not really getting it, I start faltering and mumbling something like `... and then my other hand comes over and the thumb inserts into the space between your thumb and forefinger... wait, that's not right... shouldn't my hand be the other way? Or do I come under your gripping hand...' and look helplessly at uke, who either kindly sets me straight, or else also looks hopeless and we summon the instructor and get it cleared up. Talking your way through the problem is often one of the best ways to home in on just where there's a missing link in your understanding of the tech... just an idea that I've found works for me and might help you too...

Once you get it in slow mo and can conceptualize the tech well enough to talk your way through it smoothly as you do it, rev up the speed and start omitting the commentary. At this point, you've `got' and are just bringing it up to combat speed.

 

[Tez3]

I may be able to post up an answer tomorrow! I have similiar problems along with not have much confidence in myself when I'm training martial arts. I also have no motivation or get up and go in me to do any fitness training on my own so I've plucked up my courage and tonight I'm seeing a well recommended hypnotherapist to see if he can help me get out of myself whatever I need to do to get myself out of this!
I'm having an initial consultation to see if he can help, I've been told by people who've recommended him that he won't say he'll help if he can't.

 

[Shotochem]

Try not to think as much and "feel" a bit more.

I had a bit of difficulty adjusting to the Kempo way or doing things. Now, I am getting more into the flow of things and am softening up my hard Shotokan movenents. It just takes a bit of time. Pair yourself up with a good openminded mat partner and work things out slowly then the speed and muscle memory will eventually kick in.

-Marc-

 

[Flying Crane]

First off, don't expect to get techniques to work exactly as they are taught or exactly as they are extracted from the form. Those are taught in an "ideal" phase, as a base from which to work. But you will seldom, or never, get that ideal situation. So adjust your expectations.

Once you do that, you can start responding to attacks using ideas from the techs and the forms. Not textbook techs, but just the ideas, snippets, bits of several things that come together to answer the current problem. But this still takes time and a lot of practice.

As Kacy suggested, you need to work with partners on this, starting slowly then gradually faster, start with the base ideal phase, but gradually move away from that into the spontaneous response. Start with identified and expected attacks, then become more random. But you need to work with a trusted partner and be consistent. It'll come, but it can be frustrating.

I work these kinds of drills with my wife (she began training kenpo about 7 moths ago) and she has found it to be quite useful. After just a few sessions of this, she felt a boost in her confidence level as she could see how the things can come together. And that boost in confidence can mean a huge difference in the quality of your training.

Stick it out, it'll come.

 

[zDom]

IMO, this is one of the purposes of "one step sparring."

Pick a technique, practice it in a one-step sparring situation until you can do it fast and smooth in that one-step sparring environment through plenty of repetition. BTW: this doesn't necessarily have to be from a formal stance. You can — and SHOULD — do this from a natural fighting stance or even from a neutral "hands at your side" stance.

THEN do some free sparring and look for an opportunity to apply it during that free sparring session. It may take a little bit, or even a few sparring sessions, but I think eventually it will click for you.

Once that is working for you, repeat the process with another technique.

Start by picking techniques you think come naturally to you, that feel good. Once those are working for you, you might try some that are not-so-natural for you to challenge yourself and expand your horizons.

 

[morph4me]

You've got some great advice here. You get over the hurdle by going to class and practicing. Sounds to me like you're thinking too much, the problem with thinking is that you can't react while you think. Allow yourself to feel what's going on and give yourself permission to make mistakes. It's very simple, but it isn't easy. Stick with it, it will happen, you've only been training for a year, you're still a beginner.

 

[Jdokan]

Try training with "reaction" techniques....As previously stated....start slow and practice defensively against known attacks at first AND DON'T do set learned techniques...Make something up on the spot.....Start with block and counter then add more counters until you're at a point where you're blocking and throwing several strikes.......add takedowns etc...as you develop....
As you DO get better at this start changing up the attacks....

 

[Blotan Hunka]

First off, don't expect to get techniques to work exactly as they are taught or exactly as they are extracted from the form. Those are taught in an "ideal" phase, as a base from which to work. But you will seldom, or never, get that ideal situation. So adjust your expectations.

Once you do that, you can start responding to attacks using ideas from the techs and the forms. Not textbook techs, but just the ideas, snippets, bits of several things that come together to answer the current problem. But this still takes time and a lot of practice.

As Kacy suggested, you need to work with partners on this, starting slowly then gradually faster, start with the base ideal phase, but gradually move away from that into the spontaneous response. Start with identified and expected attacks, then become more random. But you need to work with a trusted partner and be consistent. It'll come, but it can be frustrating.

I work these kinds of drills with my wife (she began training kenpo about 7 moths ago) and she has found it to be quite useful. After just a few sessions of this, she felt a boost in her confidence level as she could see how the things can come together. And that boost in confidence can mean a huge difference in the quality of your training.

Stick it out, it'll come.

What he said.

The "problem" with many classic arts is the "IF ATTACK A then RESPONSE B" style training. There are specific responses for each possible attack. Take a look at Hicks Law. The more choices you have, the slower you get. Someday, when you are sparring, try throwing ONLY jab's and crosses and maybe 1-2 kicks for ANYTHING that your opponent throws at you. It may not be pretty, but Id bet you will discover that you will feel more effective. After that take a look at your training and see what techniques will work against the most attacks and adjust from there.

Sometimes when working wrist grab defenses or other grabs I will do the "technique" desired, but sometimes I will mix in a simple straight haymaker of a punch right to the face (controlled of course). Just to keep that response in my mind and to show the person working with me what can happen when you take the simple route.

A quote of Bruce Lee goes:

In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject. Actually, he keeps chiselling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Thus, contrary to other styles, being wise in Jeet Kune-Do doesn't mean adding more; it means to minimize, in other words to hack away the unessential.

 

[JBrainard]

There is a lot of good advice here already but I just wanted to put my two cents in. Pick a technique, and then it's repetition, repetition, repetition... Once you get to the point where you can carry on a casual conversation and be applying the technique at the same time (this takes time, but works), then you can move on to another technique. Every once in a while revisit a technique and go through the same exercise. Repeat

 

[Adept]

This is where those old hacks 'alive' and 'resisting' are used.

If you know the techniques already, then you're halfway home. What you need to do is practice them in a safe environment against someone who really isn't going to just let you do it.

For example, you might want to practice some kind of throw. You get your partner, and you say 'I'm going to try to use X throw on you. And I want you to try everything you can to stop me.'

Thats the key. He (your opponent) is really trying to stop you from applying your technique. He's going to resist, he's going to react, and will very likely do something unexpected. If you're not used to that, you probably won't execute the technique properly.

Thats OK. Thats why it's called practice. You just keep on doing it, until you can get that technique happing for you no matter what your partner does to resist you.

You might want to give adrenaline dump training a go as well. Try going for a 2 mile run, doing 30 push-ups, and then doing the drills. The dryness of mouth, shortness of breath, shaking and slight exhaustion will accurately (enough) mirror the way the body acts under a dump of adrenaline in an emergency situation. If you can control your body and keep your head, and still make your techniques work under those situations, you are doing very well.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I tend to do research into a differnit style. Ju-Jitsu works well at first. Then just try and figure out the techniuqes, and see if you can figure out a way to do them from a technique a you are working on. That works for me. Something else that works for some people is to just have someone attack you when you are doing only one technique. And try, and try, and try, and try again to figure out what the technique could be.

Don't worry Jade, every one has a weak spot in their training. Mine is sparring, your's is application. Eventually it will work itself out.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Thanks so much for all the great replies. EVERYTHING we train in class has application, right down to the bow-in and warm ups. We do drills, but are not taught that attack X requires technique Y. I almost think that would be easier for me. When we train applying skills to self defense it is never "rehearsed" and it's the spontaneity that kills me.

They tell me, "just do anything", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced". But if I just do anything I'm ineffective. It's like, WTF was that???

I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!

 

[morph4me]

Maybe you should look at it from a different perspective, the guy attacking you doing it because you just came in and saw him beating on your pick one: husband, son, mother, whatever it takes to continue. Once you have a trigger you can activate to turn on your aggression, you can use it as you need it.

 

[Ella]

You have got a lot of awesome advice from people with many more years of experience and much higher rank than me.

But I do know what has worked for me.

And that is, sheer stubbornness. As long as you don't quit, I think you'll get there in the end. Maybe not as fast as some other people, but I've never heard of an attacker saying, "you might have just broken my arm, but I bet it took you twice as long to learn as that other guy!"

And, quoting my instructors, keep your cup empty and try new things when people give you advice. As long as you don't give up, and keep trying different ways in learning, you'll get there.

Just don't give up on it, because you only lose when you stop fighting.

 

[zDom]

This is where those old hacks 'alive' and 'resisting' are used.

...

For example, you might want to practice some kind of throw. You get your partner, and you say 'I'm going to try to use X throw on you. And I want you to try everything you can to stop me.'

Thats the key. He (your opponent) is really trying to stop you from applying your technique. He's going to resist, he's going to react, and will very likely do something unexpected. If you're not used to that, you probably won't execute the technique properly.

Thats OK. Thats why it's called practice. You just keep on doing it, until you can get that technique happing for you no matter what your partner does to resist you.

That's one of the reasons I like new people coming in, even if they don't stick around very long.

When I did TKD, it was always a great experience to spar brand new guys because you had to be ready for EVERYTHING — grabbing your leg, low kicking, etc.

A more recent experience in hapkido involved a new student who was roughly 320 pounds, an inch shorter than me, and scared to death to be thrown.

I would come in for a shoulder throw and he would squat down, lean back and resist will all 300+ pounds.

The FIRST time I tried to throw him, I failed. But then I shook off the failure, focused and did throw CORRECTLY and was able to successfully throw him. From that point on, I used him to hone my throwing. Nothing like a resisting partner who outweighs you by 100 pounds to ensure good technique

You might want to give adrenaline dump training a go as well. Try going for a 2 mile run, doing 30 push-ups, and then doing the drills. The dryness of mouth, shortness of breath, shaking and slight exhaustion will accurately (enough) mirror the way the body acts under a dump of adrenaline in an emergency situation. If you can control your body and keep your head, and still make your techniques work under those situations, you are doing very well.

This is something we do in hapkido as well on a fairly regular basis, albeit by calisthenics and kicking instead of running.

Working technique while exhausted and struggling to catch your breath is GREAT training.

We got some of that in last night as the last drill in our (second!) Hottest and Hardest Workout of the Year (Tuesday was the first Hottest and Hardest, but Thursday was hotter so we had to do it again).

After doing over 550 abdominal reps, 720 kicks, 200 pushups, and 10 minutes total of deep horseriding stance (no air conditioning; we never use air conditioning), we did some throwing and falling (with squat thrusts in between).