Experience...helpful but not necessary?

[andyjeffries]

Frankly, I don't know anyone who comes near that sort of rank who has not at one time or another had a dojang of their own.

That's true it may be difficult to show someone that was denied rank due to not having a school, because I guess most people do at sometime.

In fact, I had my own club for 2-3 years when I was younger, so maybe I've already qualified on this point ;-)

The Korean Martial Arts could not have grown to the size that it currently is unless there is a strong emphasis and policy of having students open their own dojang. This policy is also embedded in the Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae, which we discussed earlier. 4th Dan, or Pyongwon is all about teaching.

The funny thing is I can see you're right, for Taekwondo to become as popular as it has, it had to have a period of this being encouraged.

As I kind of related side note, I spoke to my sabumnim the other night about me opening a club - a kind of feel him out/get his blessing type of chat. I wasn't sure how he'd feel about it (I was fairly confident that he'd be encouraging, but sometimes you never know). He was very positive about it and said that it's a shame no-one else has opened a club in the area to expand our group. I did reply that a couple of people have mentioned it over the years but I gathered they thought he might not be too happy about it.

Anyway, good news for me, he's very happy that I'm doing it.

I don't know about that sort of thing. I just said that the Kukkiwon does keep track of those kinds of things. I don't know how that information is used.

If you ever speak to a senior at the Kukkiwon and happen to ask, I'd be interested in the answer...

The count is done for those who process directly with the Kukkiwon, as opposed to those who go through their MNA. We looked up my recommendations and there was a big hole when I used to go through the USTU.

Did they say anything about that hole? "Shame you didn't process them yourself" type of comment?

I've seen positive change and growth in you over the years so I am sure there will be more of the same in 5 or 10 years as well....

Thanks

At least it seems I'm on a good track then. I'll definitely be interested in the chat in 5 or 10 years then, so I can see if I feel different for having had my own club.

I actually can't wait to have students that are 100% my students again (rather than feeling a shared studentship over the guys at my club). Looking forward to seeing how well I can develop them.

 

[puunui]

In fact, I had my own club for 2-3 years when I was younger, so maybe I've already qualified on this point ;-)

Did you develop any students to 1st Poom or 1st Dan?

As I kind of related side note, I spoke to my sabumnim the other night about me opening a club - a kind of feel him out/get his blessing type of chat. I wasn't sure how he'd feel about it (I was fairly confident that he'd be encouraging, but sometimes you never know). He was very positive about it and said that it's a shame no-one else has opened a club in the area to expand our group.

Good.

If you ever speak to a senior at the Kukkiwon and happen to ask, I'd be interested in the answer...

Ok. I think they just do it to do it.

Did they say anything about that hole? "Shame you didn't process them yourself" type of comment?

No. Nothing like that.

I actually can't wait to have students that are 100% my students again (rather than feeling a shared studentship over the guys at my club). Looking forward to seeing how well I can develop them.

There you go. Do you feel that excitement and anticipation inside you? Looking ahead at all of the possibilities in a positive way? Can't wait to get started? THAT is what the martial arts journey is all about, which some call "the beginner's mind". It's not about rank, stripes on a belt, pieces of paper or other such nonsense, which I bet you are not even thinking about because you are too busy thinking about studying, learning, experimenting and growing.

 

[andyjeffries]

Did you develop any students to 1st Poom or 1st Dan?

No, and I'd guessed that was the (unspecified) criteria hence the winky smile

Do you feel that excitement and anticipation inside you? Looking ahead at all of the possibilities in a positive way? Can't wait to get started? THAT is what the martial arts journey is all about, which some call "the beginner's mind". It's not about rank, stripes on a belt, pieces of paper or other such nonsense, which I bet you are not even thinking about because you are too busy thinking about studying, learning, experimenting and growing.

I hate it when other people predict how you're feeling and get it spot on!

 

[puunui]

I hate it when other people predict how you're feeling and get it spot on!

There are two basic ways that one can approach the martial arts journey. One is to focus on things like rank or certificates and collect that sort of thing. People like that tend to go through the motions and/or do only enough to get their certificate. Their skill level tends to be mediocre, which shows in the fact that they resist learning, especially new things, or doing old things in new ways. It is easier to simply do what you have always done. What does it really matter when you got that certificate, which was the goal in the first place.

At the other end of the spectrum are those that focus on learning and growing. They go to things like instructor courses or participate on message boards like this to learn new things, to get new ideas, or to find that missing piece which allows them to continue progressing. Of they receive certificates as well, but the focus is on the journey, not the belt or the paper, which is important for beginners, but shouldn't be for dan holders so much. Color belts need the encouragement of color belt changes and promotions, because there is a point in the middle of the guep holder's journey where things become boring or monotonous, and we need to do things to keep them going.

 

[andyjeffries]

There are two basic ways that one can approach the martial arts journey. One is to focus on things like rank or certificates and collect that sort of thing. People like that tend to go through the motions and/or do only enough to get their certificate. Their skill level tends to be mediocre, which shows in the fact that they resist learning, especially new things, or doing old things in new ways. It is easier to simply do what you have always done. What does it really matter when you got that certificate, which was the goal in the first place.

I know a guy like this... He grades on the dot of when his time is up. I mean literally he counts it down in months and years since his last one until he's "going to be an X dan". He never thinks he'll fail (and somehow doesn't) and he will always be grading as soon as he can.

At the other end of the spectrum are those that focus on learning and growing. They go to things like instructor courses or participate on message boards like this to learn new things, to get new ideas, or to find that missing piece which allows them to continue progressing. Of they receive certificates as well, but the focus is on the journey, not the belt or the paper, which is important for beginners, but shouldn't be for dan holders so much.

I agree. However, it is useful to keep promoting if for no other reason than the ability to promote students and help people get Kukkiwon rank for themselves and their students.

Color belts need the encouragement of color belt changes and promotions, because there is a point in the middle of the guep holder's journey where things become boring or monotonous, and we need to do things to keep them going.

And I find this is even more so for children. That's a problem I feel we have at our current club. The children only train once per week (most of them, a couple who have black belts for parents train twice or more) and they grade once per year.

I personally feel that is too long between tests and actually has a detrimental effect on their performance. If they tested more frequently (say every 6 months) you would have the "polishing up before a test" period for more of the year and it's during that period that we see the most improvement. When they can coast for 8 months then polish up, their level has hardly improved since the last time.

I'll break this point off as a separate thread though...

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Just a thought. Would it be true to say that those that continue to train 4 or 5 days a week but never take up teaching, become better martial artists physically? I know in theory that once you start instructing you should keep up your own personal training regularly, but in the real world Ive found this doesnt happen as often as it should. I have no doubt that menatally, and from a sheer knowledge standpoint, someone who instructs will become far superior as I found when I took up guitar teaching. Once I started teaching I learnt more about playing guitar than I ever could just playing by myself. So I respect that those that teach probably become more "rounded". But what about physically? At our club training camp last week everyone trained and was instructed by a seventh dan. We had 6 X 6th dans there, 3 of which train 4 or 5 days a week and the other 3 instruct 4 or 5 days a week and I must say that physically the three that train were heaps sharper, heaps stronger and heaps quicker. Physically they were in great shape. So my question is, to those of you who instruct, how hard is it to find the time to instruct and still keep on top of your game physically? Does it need to be your full time job?

 

[andyjeffries]

Just a thought. Would it be true to say that those that continue to train 4 or 5 days a week but never take up teaching, become better martial artists physically? But what about physically? At our club training camp last week everyone trained and was instructed by a seventh dan. We had 6 X 6th dans there, 3 of which train 4 or 5 days a week and the other 3 instruct 4 or 5 days a week and I must say that physically the three that train were heaps sharper, heaps stronger and heaps quicker. Physically they were in great shape. So my question is, to those of you who instruct, how hard is it to find the time to instruct and still keep on top of your game physically? Does it need to be your full time job?

I would say that they become better athletes, but better martial artists is highly debatable. As you posted, I have learnt heaps (particularly over the past few years) when teaching.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I would say that they become better athletes, but better martial artists is highly debatable. As you posted, I have learnt heaps (particularly over the past few years) when teaching.

I agree, and that is why I want to instruct someday. For me though, keeping physically on top is where Im worried I'll struggle unless I do it full time.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Well, I know I started this thread a while back, and I'm excited that it's still breathing! Tonight is the official first class at my new school. 25 years of training, rank of 5th dan, lots of time teaching and instructing and learning, and I'm now starting my own school.

By the discussions I've read, some would say I am long overdue for this responsibility. By others' standards, my situation is irrelevant to owning/running a school.

I come from a very unique school, where there were 2 7th dans (incidentally the head and assistant head instructors of the whole association), 2 6th dans, and 5th dans in one location. We were on a rotating schedule of teaching classes, which IMHO was a great asset for the students; having so many instructors to learn from.

The two 7th dans are retiring from running a school, and will be traveling to other branch schools in the association and working on the national level of the organization more. I was asked to carry on my Sahbumnim's legacy and to open a school of my own; a responsibility I am honored and humbled to take.

One of the 6th dans, is opening his own school down the road, so it's a great opportunity to grow the local presence.

Looking forward to continuing this journey!

 

[andyjeffries]

Well, I know I started this thread a while back

Are you referring to this thread?

and I'm excited that it's still breathing! Tonight is the official first class at my new school. 25 years of training, rank of 5th dan, lots of time teaching and instructing and learning, and I'm now starting my own school.

Congratulations, I'm sure you'll do great! Good luck!

One of the 6th dans, is opening his own school down the road, so it's a great opportunity to grow the local presence.

Is this the 6th Dan you were referring to when you wrote "I am nervous of how the 6th dan will take to a 5th dan owning the school"?

It's a shame he's decided to do that (as initially it might not grow the presence but split it), but it's great that you're seeing it as the positive step it can be.

Anyway, best of luck!

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Are you referring to this thread?

Haha! Yeah, I forgot that Carl actually started this thread, it came from a side tracked discussion we were having from another thread.. .

Congratulations, I'm sure you'll do great! Good luck!

Thanks!

Is this the 6th Dan you were referring to when you wrote "I am nervous of how the 6th dan will take to a 5th dan owning the school"?

Yes, and it got REALLY ugly, petty, and unprofessional.. . I am still uncertain what repercussions will take place from the conduct unbecoming of an instructor.. . I have done my best to act as I have been taught and take the honorable path in all of it. Ultimately, only two students went with the 6th dan, and the rest have went with me. I think that speaks volumes to my conduct.

It's a shame he's decided to do that (as initially it might not grow the presence but split it), but it's great that you're seeing it as the positive step it can be.

Well, I ultimately have my reservations about how good of an idea it is for him to be representing our association by himself. However, he is my senior and I support his decisions as long as he is a member of our association. I am just glad that, in the end, he is not in my dojang. It has just simplified many of the underlying problems that were arising.

Anyway, best of luck!

Thanks, I'm excited for tonight!

 

[andyjeffries]

Yes, and it got REALLY ugly, petty, and unprofessional.. .

That's a shame. I'd be interested in hearing more, but understand you might not want to post that publicly...

I am still uncertain what repercussions will take place from the conduct unbecoming of an instructor.. . I have done my best to act as I have been taught and take the honorable path in all of it. Ultimately, only two students went with the 6th dan, and the rest have went with me. I think that speaks volumes to my conduct.

Indeed. That's good news.

Well, I ultimately have my reservations about how good of an idea it is for him to be representing our association by himself. However, he is my senior and I support his decisions as long as he is a member of our association.

From your wording above that may not be as long as it might have been...

I am just glad that, in the end, he is not in my dojang. It has just simplified many of the underlying problems that were arising.

Absolutely.

Thanks, I'm excited for tonight!

Don't forget to post back tomorrow and let us know how it went. I'm sure you've run odd sessions anyway, but there may be questions from the students/changes/etc. Just interested in how it goes for you...