Entangled Wing

[parkerkarate]

Can anyone explain to me how you are suposed to be able to drop to one knee while turning around as fast as you can, when you are facing someone who is knowledgeable in Aikido? It is just a hypothetical question. I always think that if an Aikido person gets you into that wrist lock/roll type of menouver, there is no way to stop them.
I guess the same would have to go with Twisted Twig.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Well I don't drop to one knee but I'm hoping to not fight an aikido person either.

 

[parkerkarate]

How did you learn it?

 

[jfarnsworth]

A summed up version.
Step the right foot to 10:30 w/a left back elbow as the right arm still somewhat flows w/the lock (kinda hard to describe) something similar to a right upward elbow. After the left elbow the left hand travels up to grab the opponents arm while executing a right back elbow.

I keep a check of their arm over my shoulder :idunno: it helps when you are a little shorter than everyone else.

I would post my description but I just purchased a new computer and don't have everything on this one yet.

 

[parkerkarate]

Ok so we both pretty much learned it the same way. Mr. Palanzo just added that little full kneel in there.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

The key to the aikido thing is to not let him get that hold on you. As a kenpoist, this should really be no problem. Heck, if all you knew was a jab, you should be able to avoid this dilemma.

Aikido relies heavily on borrowing directional force, associated with full-commitment. Pop the guy in the nose with a jab, instead of running at him with a wide swing, and the issue should end fairly quickly.

It's good you're identifying concerns in the tech's. There are things you can do to establish and/or maintain strength & integrity where you're sensing vulnerability. In general, if you feel unstable in a transition, you are. Put yer thinking cap on, and dare exploration outside the box. You might even improve on what's generally considered chiseled in stone.

Regards,

D.

 

[kenpoworks]

Yep I would definately agree with D.
Entagled Wing & Twisted Twig are a real aid to understanding Counter Manipulations, if you can get past the "written version" mind set.
ps don't try and do the "manual" version of Twisted Twig against a competent Jujitsu or Aikido guy. if you do , you will hit the deck like a bag of sugar.

 

[Seabrook]

Can anyone explain to me how you are suposed to be able to drop to one knee while turning around as fast as you can, when you are facing someone who is knowledgeable in Aikido? It is just a hypothetical question. I always think that if an Aikido person gets you into that wrist lock/roll type of menouver, there is no way to stop them.
I guess the same would have to go with Twisted Twig.

Dropping to one knee is something that I wouldn't recommend and is not the way I teach it.

Here's a tip - check the opponent's depth by stepping in and checking his right knee. It makes a big difference.

 

[parkerkarate]

Thanks to all of you, all of these are great tips.

Salute,
David

 

[GAB]

Yep I would definately agree with D.
Entagled Wing & Twisted Twig are a real aid to understanding Counter Manipulations, if you can get past the "written version" mind set.
ps don't try and do the "manual" version of Twisted Twig against a competent Jujitsu or Aikido guy. if you do , you will hit the deck like a bag of sugar.

Going to one knee in a boxing match will work sometimes and other times it won't. It did not work the other night and "Cotto" won.

I thought it was premature to stop the fight, but hey sometimes that happens...

The game we play where I come from, you stick your hand out in a jab fashion and you are going to pull back something hurt very bad or the game is all over. Hands and elbows meet, or elbows and forearms or lock it up or throw them. Conseptualization will help you understand this injury

Simple as that...

Take a simple upward block with your right hand or arm "we consider that a mistake", now you come over the top lock it up and damage the shoulder so bad the person is finished...Or as you are doing that you use a knee and put it in places you just don't want it to be...

You can take that as gospel...

Regards, Gary

 

[KenpoTess]

MODERATOR NOTE

Keep the discussion on TOPIC.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod

 

[GAB]

MODERATOR NOTE

Keep the discussion on TOPIC.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod

I thought I was, Just explaining my idea on how to entangle a wing...

Regards, Gary

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod Note

For review of Kenpo / Kempo - Technical Discussion Rules

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43352&postcount=1

~Tess
-MT S. Mod

 

[kenpoworks]

WOOOOSH,sorry but it went right over my head?

 

[KENPOJOE]

Can anyone explain to me how you are suposed to be able to drop to one knee while turning around as fast as you can, when you are facing someone who is knowledgeable in Aikido? It is just a hypothetical question. I always think that if an Aikido person gets you into that wrist lock/roll type of menouver, there is no way to stop them.
I guess the same would have to go with Twisted Twig.

Hi Folks!
The key to this technique is that it teaches you the concept of a {completed attack Vs "in progress"}. The bent arm figure 4 armlock that being applied has been locked in so that you must use "purposeful compliance" to yield with the attack as you drop your height zone and step scross diagonally to defuse the power of the lock and left your elbow to break the hold. Remember kenpo law: "The body does not work on diagonals". You do not drop to a knee as that will stop the rotational tourque that you need to apply the counter to the lock. Rather, stap and drop your height zone into a kneeling stance so that you can pivot and apply the elbow strikes [a "lower case" version of "twisted twig"].
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

The key to the aikido thing is to not let him get that hold on you. As a kenpoist, this should really be no problem. Heck, if all you knew was a jab, you should be able to avoid this dilemma.

Aikido relies heavily on borrowing directional force, associated with full-commitment. Pop the guy in the nose with a jab, instead of running at him with a wide swing, and the issue should end fairly quickly.

It's good you're identifying concerns in the tech's. There are things you can do to establish and/or maintain strength & integrity where you're sensing vulnerability. In general, if you feel unstable in a transition, you are. Put yer thinking cap on, and dare exploration outside the box. You might even improve on what's generally considered chiseled in stone.

Regards,

D.

Hi Folks!
Dear D,
With all due respect, as Dan Ackroyd used to say to Jane Curtain on "Weekend Update" on SNL..."you've missed the point entirely." in regards to what the technique teaches you...
The point of "entangled wing" first of all teaches you "Whatever the attitude,so is the response" Because the person places you in a "contact manipulation" position, you respond initially with non lethal response, then to apply the elbow strikes. The classic bruce lee approach of "just hit him" can land YOU in court and or jail because your opponent "just grabbed you" and you punched him in response! As I mentioned in an earlier post, the attack, a bent arm figure 4 arm lock, is first taught to instruct you on how to apply this non lethal attack to somone rather than punch them in the first place!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Yep I would definately agree with D.
Entagled Wing & Twisted Twig are a real aid to understanding Counter Manipulations, if you can get past the "written version" mind set.
ps don't try and do the "manual" version of Twisted Twig against a competent Jujitsu or Aikido guy. if you do , you will hit the deck like a bag of sugar.

Hi Folks!
Why do you feel you cannot do the "written version" of the technique? The manual is fairly clear on how to perform the action once you have learned it firsthand from an instructor. As far as "twisted twig" goes, that is an "in progress" technique, where the attacker has performed an initial wrist conpression before he or she rotates the wrist for a wrist lock ["kote gaeshi"]so you can neutralize the attack BEFORE they complete the motion. If you are interested, I do have footage of Mr. Parker teaching this technique and he felt that entangled wing was so important he did the technique twice to clarrify the points in the technique.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[kenpoworks]

Hey Joe!,
Yes Entagled Wing is massive as is Twisted Twig. That is obvious from their uniqueness in the Coloured Belt Syllabus.
What drove me to explore these two techniques was the nature of the attack and its development.
AND YES, I am totally intrested in any input, that you have to enlighten me on any aspect of these or any other techniques, please PM me.
Respectfully Rich.
Ps "Hey Joe" is the opening line from one of my favourite Hendrix tracks!

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hey Joe!,
Yes Entagled Wing is massive as is Twisted Twig. That is obvious from their uniqueness in the Coloured Belt Syllabus.
What drove me to explore these two techniques was the nature of the attack and its development.
AND YES, I am totally intrested in any input, that you have to enlighten me on any aspect of these or any other techniques, please PM me.
Respectfully Rich.
Ps "Hey Joe" is the opening line from one of my favourite Hendrix tracks!

Hi Folks!
Dear Rich,
Glad you like my posting on the boards regarding techniques. If and anyone else like what I write,Just click that "scales" icon so i can add some prestige/reputation points to my profile! :ultracool
If you look at Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, you will get some insights into the origin and techniques that caused the kenpo "counters" to be devised!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[kenpo3631]

The key to the aikido thing is to not let him get that hold on you.

Correct. One thing I see many times from kenpoists is they are in the wrong mind set. I know because I was once guilty of it too. As practioners of EPAK many of us feel that we study a remarkable and some would argue a "superior" system of the martial arts. That attitude of seemingly instilled as instructors teach their students. Look at the phraseology instructors use, "If you hit him here or when you apply that there "X" will happen". See how the students feel after they leave the mats after dong the ideal phase of the techniques repetitiously for fifty or so minutes. I have made it a point that at nomatter what belt level I am instructing I remind them that we should, if confronted, assume that the person that is attacking us knows just as much about the art and is better at it than we are. I have found that it is a real eye-opener to some. Imagine that! Someone knows more about our clandestine operation to undermine their efforts to thump us....LOL!

don't try and do the "manual" version of Twisted Twig against a competent Jujitsu or Aikido guy. if you do , you will hit the deck like a bag of sugar

I somewhat agree. If you are that far along that and in a scrap with an Aikido practitioner....One, you need to ask yourself how did I let this guy get ahold of me, and Two, you should have recognized from the position you were in that it was likely going to end up in the arm lock.

Why do you feel you cannot do the "written version" of the technique? The manual is fairly clear on how to perform the action once you have learned it firsthand from an instructor.

It also depends on which version of the manual you read.... :lol: