Election updates...

Discussion in 'US Election 2008' started by Cruentus, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    Holy crap. This election gets more and more exciting the closer we get to the Primaries (Data taken from www.realclearpolitics.com)...

    Republican: Guilliani and Huckabee are neck and neck with Guilliani at 22% and Huckabee at 20%. The next closest is Romney who is far behind at 16%. Guilliani's veil of invincibility has been torn down, as 2% is well within the margin of error. Huckabee is also up by 5% in Iowa with Romney the next in line; and this could really push him past Guilliani. This is an extremely close and volitile race for the GOP, and is still anyones game, really.

    I am a huge Huckabee fan, so I am hoping he goes all the way! :party:

    Democrat's:
    Sen. Clinton is still crushing everyone, to my surprise. She is at 43.2% with Obama next in line at a mere 26.1%. This is surprising to me, as I thought she'd lose more momentum by now. Obama is up in Iowa at 30% while she is behind at 26.7%; but Obama is SO far behind that I don't know if a win in Iowa would be enough to push him past Clinton.

    My Dem. pick would be Edwards, but he is simply being crushed by the Hillary and Obama machine.

    Plus, to add an interesting thought in the mix; it was said in the news that if Hillary was elected, that her husband and George Bush would team up and help with foreign policy issues. What do you all think of THAT!?

    Any thoughts on the current status?
     
  2. michaeledward

    michaeledward Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    6,063
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I think you are looking at the wrong polls.

    You need to be looking at State level polls in Iowa, New Hampshire, Michigan, and South Carolina. These are the first events, and the results here will dramatically affect what follows.

    Huckabee looks like a win in Iowa. It seems the evangelical wing of the Republican party doesn't have a taste for Northeast flip-floppers and crossdressers. Romney will win in New Hampshire, but, that is not going to help him with Christians that don't believe Mormons are Christian.


    On the Democratic side of the aisle, I'm getting a feeling of Clinton fatigue, and it is going to help Obama. But, there is such a power base for Clinton, it will be of interest to see where it goes.


    I think I have said it before, anyone of the Democratic candidates will be a better choice than anyone of the Republican candidates.


    I'm looking forward to the Ron Paul 3rd Party candidacy, which will ensure a Democratic President.
     
  3. Ray

    Ray Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Creston, IA
    All my life, I never looked at a candidate's religious belief, or even if they were atheist or not. Now, after 7 years of being a Mormon, I get to see what people really think about us "
    Mormons." It really caught me off guard.

    But what caught me more off guard is the lack of depth with which many people seem to investigate the candidate that they vote for. There are lots of things to select or deselect a candidate on...how well the candidates fit your ideas of good gov't, what you think the gov't should or shouldn't be doing in the first place and the actual work (e.g. votes on bills, etc) of the candidates.

    Heck, if the only reason someone votes for Obama is "he's cool" I guess it's their constitutional right; it just seems so superficial. (and I have heard that from an 18 year old).

    (This isn't pointed at MichaelEdward; just in tune with his observation that some people will not vote for Romney because they wrongly believe Mormons aren't Christian).
     
  4. michaeledward

    michaeledward Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    6,063
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Ray, I think you are correct. And personally, I am none too pleased by the fact the 'some people' won't vote for Romney based on his faith as well.

    I personally think there are plenty of good reasons for a conservative Republican to choose someone other than the former Governor of Massachusetts.

    But, I think that those 'some people', have been told for thirty years now, that they are critically important to the Republican Party. They were the keepers of 'traditional values' and 'family values'. And I believe that those 'some people' have often voted against their own self-interest based on the ideology of 'values'.

    And now, most interestingly, it seems that those 'some people' have decided that Mr. Thompson is too lazy to be President, (having waited patiently for him to champion their cause), and they have thrown their weight behind Governor Huckabee. Hence, the rapid ascention of an Arkansas from Hope.

    It's fun to watch, because I don't think that is how the Republican Powers planned it, at all.
     
  5. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,551
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Sanger CA
    Unless John Edwards personally cures cancer, captures Osama bin Laden or single handedly does something too spectacular for words, he's out.
    I don't know why, but Romney rubs me the wrong way. He can't be much of a conservative, or he wouldn't have been elected in MA... Huckabee is doomed by one small thing: he is a Southern Baptist minister. Unlike the democrats who are allowed, for some reason, allowed to CLAIM to be of a certain religion then totally disregard all the tenets of that religion, Republicans who commit the smallest sin are pilloried instantly.Hypocrisy among democrats is so accepted it is expected, in republicans one toe over the line will end a career. Look at the recent stories about how Rudy's extramarital philandering is reviled while Bill Clinton's is excused...
    McCain won't be the republican nominee, he's far too hated in some quarters. Thompson isn't taken seriously, Guiliani isn't really a conservative, Ron Paul is way too loony. (He almost makes Kucinich look sane...almost)
    Obama doesn't seem tough enough to roll with the innumerable punches the Clinton campaign is about to throw his way. Hillary is LOATHED by so many, I just can't see her winning, people will vote against her. None of the other democrats are serious contenders, none of them ever were.
     
  6. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Clinton's was accepted? Could have sworn I remember something about impeachment... But regardless, from what I have seen it's not so much that he had the affair, it was that he used public money to have an affair, and to cover it up.

    I think Huckabee has more going against him then being a minister though, the fact that he likely would have those beliefs influence his decisions would. His sons actions probably will too, including how he reacted to the dog hanging / stoning. (But he did congratulate us on our national igloo)

    Hillary... I hope you all learnt your lesson about voting for someone that is riding there last name right to the top already, can't see that working out.

    Obama, as Don said, he's just kinda grey, he's different, doesn't fit the 50 year old white male that lies about little things like smoking pot in his youth molde, but apart from that he just doesn't seem to stand out.

    Ron Paul is honest and consistant... but insane, it is amazing how some of his supporters treat him as the second coming though. I think he's got good points in his message, but I don't think the consequences are really being thought out.

    Kucinich - I'm Canadian, he's probably the closest to my views, but he's not got a chance from the looks of things.

    I think you folks have a hard call, maybe it's time to seriously consider getting a 3rd party going down there, the two are looking more and more alike in there mainstream views. The edges (Paul & Kucinich) might be different, but the ones that got a chance don't really seem that different.

    Of course whoever does win inherits the Iraq war, which is going to be a mess no matter what they do.
     
  7. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    Come on now; I think that most republicans have been fine with Romney's religious denomination. The party, the other canidates, and the media especially has treated him quite well. His speech that addressed the religion issue was wonderful, and almost everyone and anyone in the spotlight has agreed with that.

    I think that the real reason that some people don't like him has more to do with his waffling around on certain issues, some of the inconsistancies in what he says, and some things in his record as Governor. It's really shallow (and sour grapes if you are a supporter) to blame his lower % on his mormon beliefs when there just isn't the indication that those beliefs are the reason for it.
     
  8. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    I think that you are correct on that. That is another reason why I like the fact that Huckabee is climbing. I hate it when those who try to manufactor our decisions to suit their interests get what they want...
     
  9. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    lol... So NO ONE will be elected in 2008.... sweet.. :rofl:
     
  10. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,551
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Sanger CA
    Are mind control weapons a big concern of yours?
     
  11. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    I have a different tin foil hat for every day of the week. Some people think that is overkill, but it's good for holidays. Just have to walk near a microwave and I put on my own fireworks show.
     
  12. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,172
    Likes Received:
    460
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Not BC, Not DC
    I'm writing in Ralph Nader. I don't see any of the candidates listed below actually fighting for our rights as citizens, actually affecting changes that preserve our freedoms, command quality, safety and accountability ....

    I won't vote for the lesser evil again. I shouldn't have to - no one should.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Creston, IA
    I'm not saying that Romney's standing in the polls is completely because of his religion.

    I am saying that some people (I don't have the numbers, and I have seen/heard people) have decided against him only because of his religion. It is the right of voters to make their decisions any way they want to. But some of the comments and editorials I've heard/read have really caught me off guard. I'm okay with people voting anyway they want, and I'll be okay with a dem pres if that's the way the election goes...
     
  14. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    765
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    There's 20 other parties candidates missing from consideration, that whole they aren't allowed the 3 year warmup like the cousins are.

    I would love to see whoever the big 2 pick stand in a real head to head debate against the Libertarian, Green, and Constitution party candidates instead of another infomercial run like last time.

    Me, worst case, I'll write in Bill Gates.
    And y'all know how I feel about Bill.

    If Hillery wins, I'm moving north and learning to like Hockey. LOL!
     
  15. newGuy12

    newGuy12 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    In the Doggy Pound!
    i think that sucks. I hope its nothing but a lie. That is the worst thing I have ever heard about the HRC campaign.


    I think that Ron Paul and *maybe* Huckabee are the only real guys on the Republican side. I'm just hoping to get Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the neocons far, far away from govt where they can do no more harm to our country.

    I fear that they have sealed its death with the spending that they've done, but at least we can try to postpone it.
     
  16. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    765
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    Which Bush? Bill and Sr. have been doing stuff together for years. If it's Jr...why would Bill need a jester with him?
     
  17. newGuy12

    newGuy12 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    In the Doggy Pound!
    Good point!
     
  18. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Bush sr, I saw that quoted somewhere else. Bill Clinton and Bush Sr would be going out to repair international reputation.
     
  19. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,172
    Likes Received:
    460
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Not BC, Not DC
    Good gawd ... it's like getting Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum to help you find the white rabbit. Perhaps we should ask for cocaine or cigars ... I'll bet the former two could do *that.* ;)
     
  20. michaeledward

    michaeledward Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    6,063
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    158
    President Clinton made that ascertion a couple of days ago. The First President Bush denied that he made any sort of ascertion with a couple of hours.

    In the end, however, I think all former President's take steps for the betterment of the nation. Of course, for the current President Bush, the best thing he could do for the benefit of the nation, is to move to his property in South America and hide.123
     

Share This Page