Ed Parker on change says it all!

[Fastmover]

Throughout this thread there is post after post from those that
state without reservation that Kenpo is not lacking and it
is all inclussive system. Yet when someone like Mr Mills and others
applies the principles of Kenpo and creates a curriculum with
for example Knives, clubs and ground work this philosophy
is wrong? These same folks start screaming this isnt Kenpo?

Consider within Kenpo, it does have a complete alphabet
of motion and principles that can be applied multi-dimensional.
I believe this to be the core strength of Kenpo.

So let me ask this question, what is Kenpo? Is it the principles
that make Kenpo or is it the sequence of movements?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Fastmover: That sounds like the start of another thread...

 

[Fastmover]

Sorry.......... I thought it would go well with the idea of change and
with everyone screaming about the same subjects spilling over
various threads, I thought I would try to keep the idea of
change consolidated.

If the MODS want to start another thread with this then so be it,
but their going to do so at the risk of starting another thread
on the same subject. In other words Ill let them be the bad guys...so folks will yell at them and not me!! lol!!

Be Good

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Fastmover: Not sure if trying to define what is Kenpo is the same as crosstraining/grappling. I think if we keep our heads up and our egos down, it could be an interesting and constructive discussion.

 

[MJS]

Egos?? What egos? None of that here!!LOL!

Just kidding OFK!!


Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

when your arm is bent, grows long, and then short again, that is Kenpo.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Fastmover: That sounds like the start of another thread...

There's already one thread on what is kenpo, as well as another on what is not kenpo. It was like one month ago or two, me thinks...

 

[twinkletoes]

Methinks it was called "What makes it kenpo?" and methinks mestarted it.

The best answer I could get was "an eclectic system that incoporates a multi-strike format, using a mix of linear and circular movements."

My favorite answer is an old joke: "KENPO: noun. "A hawaiian art of drumming that replaces the drum with the human body."



~TT

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by twinkletoes
My favorite answer is an old joke: "KENPO: noun. "A hawaiian art of drumming that replaces the drum with the human body."



~TT

:rofl: :rofl:

 

[sumdumguy]

[QUOTE

The best answer I could get was "an eclectic system that incoporates a multi-strike format, using a mix of linear and circular movements."
[/QUOTE]


Don't anyone tel Howard Silva that! Man he'll get pissed and start on a rant you don't want to hear about eclectic crap....

:asian: :asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Hey Sumdumguy: It's not the style that's eclectic. It's the vocabulary!

 

[sumdumguy]

Do tell OFK?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

OK, Here I go getting in trouble again...

According to Webster's dictionary, eclectic = selecting or made up of what seems best of varied sources.

IMHO, While Kenpo does borrow heavily from various sources (Kosho Ryu, Kung Fu styles, etc.), So much of EPAK is home-grown straight-out-of-Parker's-imagination. I think Kenpo is a very original martial art. I think it is much more original than many other Asian arts where lineage and cross-style linkage is more evident in the movement. Kenpo's vocabulary though seems to borrow heavily from physics, Zen, and several other sources. To me, Kenpo's moves seem natural, the explanations seem borrowed. Just my opinion.

 

[rmcrobertson]

To quote Zander, OK, now I'm sayin' something.

My understanding is that OFK (and do I wish that people would just use their names? yes) is correct. Kenpo isn't an, 'eclectic,' system, because 'eclectic," suggests simply borrowing bits and pieces from everywhere.

Beyond a few superficialities (multiple strikes, for example; the return and development of a checking system that had apparently been in traditional Chinese arts and got discaded; right-sidedness), what defines Parker's kenpo is the approach to self-defense, and the teaching system developed from that approach.

Basically, American kenpo was meant to be the truth about self-defense--or as I've said before, its basic, forms, sets, techniques, sparring drills, map out the genetic pattern that was present, but unorganized, in martial arts.

Is this true? Well, there's a question.

There. That should get me in more trouble than you, OFK.

 

[sumdumguy]

Now why would either of you get in trouble? I simply wanted to see what the OFK had for an explanation for his previous comment. I have no doubt about the origins of the kenpo system or it's terminology. And for the most part I have to agree with OFK for the terminology part, that's where it can get really confusing though. If I take terms from one art (system) and use them in another art (system) along with factor "x" then I have created or formulated an eclectic system. But, If I take terms from a non-martial art discipline e.g. science, physics, then is it eclectic? I am not mixing two of the same disciplines e.g. Martial art systems, which the definition specifically states. HMMMMM?

Have a Nice Day!

P.S. Besides this forum is for discussion, not for the other crap that happens usually. And I don't really know either of you OFK or McRoberts so who am I to say....
:asian: :asian:

 

[Rainman]

I vote eclectic...

American Kenpo is alive therefore adaptable. The only limitations are the ones taught to you! Once the cause and effect of movemnets are understood to a certain degree, the sky and time are your only adversaries. Of course you do need people to train with on a regular basis as well.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I think that Esoteric is the word we are looking for, not eclectic.

According to Webster...esoteric = designed for or understood only by the specially initiated. Esoteric is a much better term for Kenpo than eclectic don't you think?

 

[Brother John]

I think that Esoteric is the word we are looking for, not eclectic.

No. Esoteric denotes information that only the 'elect few' are privy too... that's antithetical to Kenpo, especially regarding the attitude in which Mr. Parker put it forward... demystifying the mysterious... there are no secrets...etc. Mr. Parker strove to make Kenpo learnable by all, at any level of understanding. Esoteric information is by it's very nature difficult to obtain.

I vote eclectic...

Rainman: Though I agree wholeheartedly with why you like the word 'eclectic', and at first blush when this word was brought up in the current thread I liked it too... it's actual denotation is not the best choice; I don't think.
IF I understand your argument you are saying that because Kenpo is so very adaptable (my favorite feature of our wonderful art) that this makes it eclectic. That's not what eclectic means. Eclectic in expresion? Ok... maybe. But the word actually speaks to origins... and in this it is only partially true.

TO MY UNDERSTANDING (limited at best) Mr. Parker was influenced in the creation/inovation/foundation of Kenpo and the concepts that it was structured around. He was influenced by some oriental masters that he was privaleged to call friends and learned from them... but seems to me he studied the why more than the how. The actual material that comprises(ed) the origingal EPAK (as it was in 1991) was (I think) 99% Parker's brainchild/inspiration+perspiration. It's roots are different than it's outcome. (hope I'm being clear) It (the curiculum) wasn't drawn from many sources, as eclectic denotes... it was Drawn from The Grandmaster.

Try these words on for size:
broad, comprehensive, inclusive; assorted, diverse, diversified
multifarious, multiform, varied

Kenpo is too distinctive and original to truly be 'eclectic'; regardless of the vein or paths it's undergone since Mr. Parker moved on to other duties.

Just my thoughts...and random/convoluted ones at that...
Your Brother
John

 

[rmcrobertson]

I agree with John. He seems to be right on the proverbial about, "eclectic," and, "esoteric."

For similar reasons, "syncretic," would also be incorrect.

I'm not sure I see why we need so many of these one-word/three-word deals to describe everything...seems to me, it's a big dead end.

But if you want one here, try, "radical."

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Robert: Got to disagree with you here. Kenpo may have been radical in the 60's, 70's, and maybe even the 80's. Now I'd have to say it is conservative, even traditional.