Ed parker 10 degree
- Thread starter samourai
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Brother John
Senior Master
Not a bad question. I think it's something that needs to be understood, especially because the question comes up from time to time. I don't pretend to have THE answer, but possibly an answer pointed in the correct direction... at least something worth considering.
First: what is a "10th" degree Black Belt? Most often this rank comes attatched to the title of "Grandmaster". In my view, they both represent a person that not only knows the ENTIRE art/system (which could be said of each "master"), but has a birds-eye view or vision for WHY it is that way and not another, for what it's really all about and WHERE it is aimed at for the future.
Mr. Parker also had the title of "Senior" Grandmaster, denoting that not only was he the Grandmaster of the system, but that he was the FIRST Grandmaster as well.
Mr. Parker learned Kenpo from Mr. Chow, but down through the years he applied his own thoughts and insights to the art, renovating and changing what he felt needed to be renovated/changed and also further defining much of what had before gone unstated and also codifying many of his own insights/theories/concepts so that they could be passed along better to each individual practitioner. After many years of this, neither the art nor his comprehension of it could be said to have come from his instructor(s), but more from his own insights and continued study of Kenpo Karate. So...at that point, it was a new system. WHO knew the most about that system? It's creator. Who created it? Senior Grandmaster Ed Parker. The 10th degree Black Belt, as I see it, was just to be appropriate to what he was.... THE Father of the entire system.
SO.... to make a more concise answer to your question.
Where did Ed Parker Sr. obtain his 10th Degree Black Belt?
From the Fact of what he'd done, from creating a full and complete system that was different than any other, distinct.... no one knew it better, so he was it's head. THE 10th degree Black Belt.
He earned it, through great effort and experience.
I hope this helps in your understanding.
Your Brother
John
First: what is a "10th" degree Black Belt? Most often this rank comes attatched to the title of "Grandmaster". In my view, they both represent a person that not only knows the ENTIRE art/system (which could be said of each "master"), but has a birds-eye view or vision for WHY it is that way and not another, for what it's really all about and WHERE it is aimed at for the future.
Mr. Parker also had the title of "Senior" Grandmaster, denoting that not only was he the Grandmaster of the system, but that he was the FIRST Grandmaster as well.
Mr. Parker learned Kenpo from Mr. Chow, but down through the years he applied his own thoughts and insights to the art, renovating and changing what he felt needed to be renovated/changed and also further defining much of what had before gone unstated and also codifying many of his own insights/theories/concepts so that they could be passed along better to each individual practitioner. After many years of this, neither the art nor his comprehension of it could be said to have come from his instructor(s), but more from his own insights and continued study of Kenpo Karate. So...at that point, it was a new system. WHO knew the most about that system? It's creator. Who created it? Senior Grandmaster Ed Parker. The 10th degree Black Belt, as I see it, was just to be appropriate to what he was.... THE Father of the entire system.
SO.... to make a more concise answer to your question.
Where did Ed Parker Sr. obtain his 10th Degree Black Belt?
From the Fact of what he'd done, from creating a full and complete system that was different than any other, distinct.... no one knew it better, so he was it's head. THE 10th degree Black Belt.
He earned it, through great effort and experience.
I hope this helps in your understanding.
Your Brother
John
Not sue how that answers the question...
It's not a matter of legitmacy, just a matter of history.
I think that given Ed Parker's accomlishments very few would question any rank that he claimed.
But for curriosity it might be nice to know if someone else awarded it too him, or he just adopted it as given his position and influence it would be the correct rank for him to have.
It's not a matter of legitmacy, just a matter of history.
I think that given Ed Parker's accomlishments very few would question any rank that he claimed.
But for curriosity it might be nice to know if someone else awarded it too him, or he just adopted it as given his position and influence it would be the correct rank for him to have.
Brother John
Senior Master
Just trying to say, he 'gave' himself the 10 degrees....because nobody else was qualified.
Your Brother
John
Your Brother
John
Sapper6
3rd Black Belt
Brother John said:
and i don't see a problem with that. you answered the question just fine.
My impression of Mr SGM Parker from reading his Infinite Insights Book(s) and discussions with people who knew him and of his son (Jr.) was that he was one of those rare individuals who was humble enough to know that giving himself the title of SGM or just plain ole' 10th degree BB wasn't something done lightly or out of sheer arrogance like some other supposed GM's.
IMO, when a person does exactly what Brother John stated...
SGM Parker is among those rare individuals who are actual GM's of their arts. He'll be long remembered and honored for his efforts. :asian:
IMO, when a person does exactly what Brother John stated...
That to me says it all as far as what/how/when a person can "bestow" the title unto themselves.Brother John said:
SGM Parker is among those rare individuals who are actual GM's of their arts. He'll be long remembered and honored for his efforts. :asian:
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That was the best post/explanation on the matter that I have ever read. Unlike the now dime-a-dozen 10th degrees now out there, many in their thirties (?), few would quarrel with his holding a judan. I certainly wouldn't, nor would I respect any uber-soke that did.Brother John said:
Brother John
Senior Master
Brother John said:
Cool!!!! I got a "Negative Rep" point from someone who didn't like this statement and instead of a name put down "Please!".
Nice.
Just wondering if you'd care to step out of the annonymous shadows and actualy state your case here... if you have one.
I doubt it.
Your Brother
John
kenpoworks
Purple Belt
Brother John I agree with you about the "annonymous shadows" , its the only big draw back with this otherwise excellent forum.
Richie
Richie
Atlanta-Kenpo
Blue Belt
Interesting topic.
I am not sure where I read this at but I beleave that the way it went was Ed Parker had decided to take the rank of 10th since his art was a completely different art from both Chow and Mitose and it was the right and correct thing to do. However, I do think that James Mitose later came to the US and promoted Ed Parker to 10th but I don't thik is accepted that rank because he was never realy a "student" of Mr Mitose.
I am not sure where I read this at but I beleave that the way it went was Ed Parker had decided to take the rank of 10th since his art was a completely different art from both Chow and Mitose and it was the right and correct thing to do. However, I do think that James Mitose later came to the US and promoted Ed Parker to 10th but I don't thik is accepted that rank because he was never realy a "student" of Mr Mitose.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Jagdish said:
Don't bet on it. Mr. Parker sought to distance himself form the traditions of the east in favor of a Western martial art, based on principles of western sciences and philosophies (i.e., physics, anatomy & physiology, etc.), as opposed to the generational traditions of the east. He had a large enough audience and scoper of appreciation among westerners & some Chinese on this continent, without having to go outside to seek approval.
There was some discussion, at one point, as to whether or not kenpo practitioners might seek membership in the budotukai (sp?) via Richard Kim. There wasn't enough interest in any of the parties.
Regards,
Dave
Without getting into history, I think it only natural that any head of an organization be the top rank that is offered as a goal in his or her organization. Mr. Parker was very influencial in the color coding of belts as we know it so I don't think that it is stepping on any toes to be the president of your own organization.
Sean
Sean
Doc
Senior Master
While it is true Ed parker Sr. assumed the rank of 10th degree Grandmaster of his own system, (and rightly so) it was with the clear acceptance of his peers in the arts. It is also noteworthy that he was also promoted to at least 8th degree, (and possibly 9th - have to check my files) by his senior, and Kwai Sun Chow's senior student, Sijo Adriano Emperado - Grandmaster of Kajukenbo. Additionally and contrary to popular belief, Mr. Parker only assumed the title of SENIOR Grandmaster to take his place in history and allow that other Grandmasters could emerge in his system(s) even while he lived. However despite thoughts to the contrary, there is and will always be only one Senior Grandmaster in ANY of Ed Parker's Arts.
Well said Brother John.
Dr. Crouch Is correct as well. Ed Parker never sought approval from anyone for his works. If he was satisfied, that's all that mattered
Well said Brother John.
Dr. Crouch Is correct as well. Ed Parker never sought approval from anyone for his works. If he was satisfied, that's all that mattered
Brother John
Senior Master
Jagdish said:
No....I really really doubt that there's any truth to that. not only have I never heard anything like that, it doesn't fit with what I know of his personality. (2nd hand, sure, but still......not fitting)
Your Brother
John
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Jagdish said:
Wow, this is a new one on me.....LOL Absurd! He didn't have to "try" to seek approval from anyone - - especially from a "Japanese" source (it would serve no purpose, we are an "American Art") just WHO would he present the "system" to ???????? Is there a governing board there or something? Who would be qualified to pass judgment on what he developed? lol NOT!!
15 years later this nonsense continues ... wow.
:asian:
Brother John
Senior Master
Thanks Ron, I appreciate it.Doc said:
Though I'd only had the honor of meeting Mr. Parker twice, I've picked up from a good number of people that knew him first hand as well as biographies that he wasn't a man that needed external validation or approval. Seems to me that if there was a thing that HE considered good, HE did it........damn the torpedos!! The thought of him seeking external validation for his work seems very off track for him. The thought of him seeking any kind of recognition seems odd... his recognition was EARNED, and he got LOTS of recognition, but it came without him seeking it.
(Thinking of him seeking it from the orient, counter to the grain)
I've got nothing but respect for the man who's favorite technique was a handshake and a smile and who's favorite "Title" (though he earned and deserved many) was "Ed".
Your Brother
John
Aikido13
White Belt
Take this site for what it's worth on Kenpo history...hope this helps some....
http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/articles.htm
William
http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/articles.htm
William
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Aikido13 said:
The Tracy's in general, and the San Jose board, are known for a few biases which don't always hold up under scrutiny. Just an FYI regarding "believe only half of what you hear...", and so on.
Dave
