Don't Box a Boxer...

[Cryozombie]

Ok... so, serious questions regarding ninpo training... lets walk away from the style arguments plagueing this forum for a bit...

In class the other night a situation arose that brought forth a discussion by our instructor on not fighting a fighter the way the fighter wants you fighting. (say that 10 times fast)

For example he talked about not standing up and boxing with a boxer... Not grappling with a grappler... etc...

How do you guys feel about this, do you practice these applications in your taijutsu training, and if so, in what ways?

 

[Jay Bell]

I think the primary meaning is don't let the opponent dictate how the fight will go...and by what means used. I've seen it countless times in streetfights....someone who studies martial arts for years puts their hands up and goes into boxer mode...just because the opponent did.

 

[Don Roley]

The problem I have with this idea is how the heck do you know what they guy practices until after the blows start flying? If the guy does like Jay said and drops into a stance, that may be a good indication. But if he is bothering to get into a stance I will be busy running for the door.

And how many people have tried scenario training like this? Not sparring, scenario training where one guy pretends to be something and the other deals with it the best he can. I have not gone against a boxer in that situation, but have dealt with people who have pretended to be drunk and feeling no pain, etc.

 

[Enson]

And how many people have tried scenario training like this? Not sparring, scenario training where one guy pretends to be something and the other deals with it the best he can. I have not gone against a boxer in that situation, but have dealt with people who have pretended to be drunk and feeling no pain, etc.

re: boxing a boxer...? well the way it was explained to me is don't go toe to toe with someone who is an expert in that aspect of fighting. he just might be better than you. go for his weakness. i once got to spar a friend of mine who boxed. i went low and went for strikes to his legs. he didn't know how to respond. he tried to kick which didn't work for him because he didn't know how. he was at a disadvantage.
re: scenario training...? s.t. is one of my favorite ways to train. not knowing what the other person is going to do and having to repsond. gets the heart pumping pretty good. i try to practice perfecting my technique first and then i will take it to s.t.

 

[Cryozombie]

The problem I have with this idea is how the heck do you know what they guy practices until after the blows start flying? If the guy does like Jay said and drops into a stance, that may be a good indication. But if he is bothering to get into a stance I will be busy running for the door.

Well... the way we were looking at it... it was like dude came in and grappled another student, and that student went into "grappler" mode and tried to grapple with him... Obviously he was "graplling a grappler"... Thats what started the discussion in class. So yeah, you might not know until the blows start flying, but at that point... uh... adjust?

 

[clayton]

I think that the big thing to remember is that your throwing away your training to match someone elses style, taking away your best tools.

 

[Deaf]

The problem I have with this idea is how the heck do you know what they guy practices until after the blows start flying? If the guy does like Jay said and drops into a stance, that may be a good indication. But if he is bothering to get into a stance I will be busy running for the door.

And how many people have tried scenario training like this? Not sparring, scenario training where one guy pretends to be something and the other deals with it the best he can. I have not gone against a boxer in that situation, but have dealt with people who have pretended to be drunk and feeling no pain, etc.

I agree with Don on this one. How in the world can you know a guy is a kung fu fighter, boxer or grappler etc. until the blows start coming.

IMHO, taijutsu is about moving and changing. Thus I think the most important mindset to have regarding this is not to become fixtated on one particular way of handling an opponent. Move, adapt and adjust to the point where you are the most advantageous. Easier said than done I know but none the less an important concept to strive for.

~Deaf~

 

[Don Roley]

Well... the way we were looking at it... it was like dude came in and grappled another student, and that student went into "grappler" mode and tried to grapple with him... Obviously he was "graplling a grappler"... Thats what started the discussion in class. So yeah, you might not know until the blows start flying, but at that point... uh... adjust?

I think I see where you are coming from. The guy started grappling, and instead of breaking loose and gaining distance the other guy stood there and tried to beat him at his own game.

Of course, in that situation you need to do a little grappling in order to get free. But the idea may be better stated as not trying to fight the other guy on his terms. I dislike my old instructor but he did once tell me that if someone came at you it is because he feels that he somehow has an advantage. You don't let him get that advantage- you run. "If you really need to take the guy out you wait until he falls asleep," he said.

So, correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that if someone tries to grab you instead of punch you, you should try to keep it at striking range. And if the guy starts throwing blows you should enter ASAP and toss the guy?

 

[Cryozombie]

Well I dont know...

My Instructor entered into the situation... an when they attempted tp grapple him he changed the fight by using Taijutsu, instead of fighting against the grapple... its hard to explain without haveing seen it...

 

[Shogun]

There was an article in BB magazine that talked about how fighters in NHB events can use their grappling/striking skills (whichever) to defend against a grappler/striker.
Basically, use the info you have (however limited it is) to defend, then use the opposite for offense.

scenario:
grappler attacks you with a double leg. Use grappling to defend (sprawl, guard, etc) and then use the opposite (striking) to counterattack.