Does Kung-Fu have a poor public image?

[exile]

Then I think we are saying the same thing (?)

We are indeed, XS!

If so, sorry about my response post. The street thing is very sensitive to me, though here in the forums it's a punch line term usually. (That shows where I'm from right?-lol!)

Not even a hint of a problem—I think I know what was going through your mind...

Are we still cool?

Cool? We are chillin', brother!

 

[Flying Crane]

Can't argue with success, eh? Here you are, still with us and still posting... clearly, your system works. Much better, in my opinion, than a strategy of trying to become invisible... probably a lot of guys who attempted to go that route are no long in a position to admit the error of their ways, I fear...

I wonder just how one becomes invisible. Perhaps they simply WILL it to be?

It reminds me of an old Monty Python skit. One of the guys was going to set a world record by leaping the entire English Channel in one jump. When he confessed that his longest jump so far was something like 6 feet, 4 inches, he was asked just how he expected to clear the entire English Channel. His response was something to the effect of: "Well, when you are miles out from land, over the English Channel, there is a very very strong incentive to stay in the air".

I believe he was to make the jump with about 100 pounds of construction bricks on his back, as it was a brick manufacturer that was providing financial sponsorship for the stunt.

Ah, but I digress from the topic at hand. Back to kung fu's (and other TMA's) reputation...

 

[exile]

I wonder just how one becomes invisible. Perhaps they simply WILL it to be?

We could always ask them... wait, we can't do that... if they're invisible we can't see them so we don't know who they are, so we don't know who to ask. Scratch that... back to the drawing board...

It reminds me of an old Monty Python skit. One of the guys was going to set a world record by leaping the entire English Channel in one jump. When he confessed that his longest jump so far was something like 6 feet, 4 inches, he was asked just how he expected to clear the entire English Channel. His response was something to the effect of: "Well, when you are miles out from land, over the English Channel, there is a very very strong incentive to stay in the air".

I believe he was to make the jump with about 100 pounds of construction bricks on his back, as it was a brick manufacturer that was providing financial sponsorship for the stunt.

:rofl:

Ah, but I digress from the topic at hand. Back to kung fu's (and other TMA's) reputation...

I think the CMAs have a particular problem with this, for reasons already discussed very perceptively above: these arts come with a lot of baggage from their own history, with fact and fantasy blended. There is a larger issue here, in fact, which would be interesting to explore, perhaps, in its own thread: the differences in the role of the CMAs, OMAs, JMAs, FMA's... whatever-MAs (I'd use XMA on the standard notation of X as a variable over the set of possibilities, except that the result in this case has already taken for use in labelling an activity that really isn't mentionable in civilized company... :wink1: ) with respect to the larger culture which they're part of. My feeling is—and again, I'm quite happy to be shown to be way wrong, if I am—that the CMAs play quite a different kind of role in Chinese culture than the karate-based arts and the FMAs do in their respective cultures. But that's a big, big topic...

 

[Flying Crane]

I think the CMAs have a particular problem with this, for reasons already discussed very perceptively above: these arts come with a lot of baggage from their own history, with fact and fantasy blended...

My feeling is—and again, I'm quite happy to be shown to be way wrong, if I am—that the CMAs play quite a different kind of role in Chinese culture than the karate-based arts and the FMAs do in their respective cultures. But that's a big, big topic...

This is bringing back memories of a thread I started a while back over on the sister site, KenpoTalk.

I had posted a link to my capoeira school's website, where some videoclips were listed, from demonstrations the school had done. Some nice capoeira games were profiled there, and it gives an interesting, but brief, taste of the art.

My subject for the thread was, Capoeira vs. Kenpo. I did not wish to suggest or promote one art as better than the other. Instead, I was interested in stimulating some discussion on the two arts, to look at the strengths and weaknesses of each, and the vastly different approach to combat and training that each art takes. Not many of the kenpo guys over there were experienced with capoeira, so I was sort of the lone defender of the art, while the kenpo guys looked at its perceived weaknesses. There was also a general acknowledgement of capoeiras strengths as well, in it's unusual approach and tricky and surprising techniques.

At any rate, I remember one poster indicated that he felt capoeira was just a fancy dance, with little fighting potential.

My gut reaction was to contradict him and educate him and explain how wrong he was. But then I realized, probably the old capoeira masters of 100 or 150 years ago would be absolutely DELIGHTED to know that an outsider had this perception of the art.

Perhaps Capoeira and the Chinese arts share a similar role as a greater cultural vessel than simply a fighting art. I dunno, just thinking...

I think it is a modern perception that we need our art to be respected by outsiders. This is a reflection of the modern reality that few of us ever need to actually defend our lives with our skills. If we did need to on any kind of regular occasion, if we were living 150 years ago when our own safety was much more in our own hands, when we didn't have organized law enforcement to protect society, I bet none of us would be talking as freely about our art as we are today. That would be a secret held very tight and close, and the more false information we could leak out about how "lousy" our art was, the better.

So the more I think about this, the more my response to some blowhard who says "oh, you do that kung fu crap? well I do XYZ and it's WAY BETTER than your kung fu!", or "I bet I could kick your ***, 'cause I do XYZ!", I am more likely to say "Ah, I am sure your are correct, that is some very powerful stuff you do!" and leave it at that.

edit: I remember reading about a famous capoeirista from the 1800s, or something, some guy who was almost a folk hero. I think when he was threatened or backed into a corner, he would literally collapse into a blubbering heap, pouring out rivers of crocodile tears. He would convince his adversary of how weak and vulnerable he was, and they would drop their guard. Then he would whip out the straight razor and end it right there. Trickery, trickery, trickery...when your life is on the line, everything goes, and deception is the rule of the day...

 

[exile]

I think it is a modern perception that we need our art to be respected by outsiders. This is a reflection of the modern reality that few of us ever need to actually defend our lives with our skills. If we did need to on any kind of regular occasion, if we were living 150 years ago when our own safety was much more in our own hands, when we didn't have organized law enforcement to protect society, I bet none of us would be talking as freely about our art as we are today. That would be a secret held very tight and close, and the more false information we could leak out about how "lousy" our art was, the better.

So the more I think about this, the more my response to some blowhard who says "oh, you do that kung fu crap? well I do XYZ and it's WAY BETTER than your kung fu!", or "I bet I could kick your ***, 'cause I do XYZ!", I am more likely to say "Ah, I am sure your are correct, that is some very powerful stuff you do!" and leave it at that.

edit: I remember reading about a famous capoeirista from the 1800s, or something, some guy who was almost a folk hero. I think when he was threatened or backed into a corner, he would literally collapse into a blubbering heap, pouring out rivers of crocodile tears. He would convince his adversary of how weak and vulnerable he was, and they would drop their guard. Then he would whip out the straight razor and end it right there. Trickery, trickery, trickery...when your life is on the line, everything goes, and deception is the rule of the day...

Beautifully put and a great insight. It's like two countries which are at war: each would just as soon the other think the worst of its most advanced armament and assume that those weapons were pushovers. They don't send each other dispatches during lulls in the fighting bragging that their SAMs can track not only heat but radiation over a huge portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, and also have anti-stealth recognition capability. Disinformation, not information, is the order of the day...

 

[Flying Crane]

Disinformation, not information, is the order of the day...

The more I think about it, the more I really really believe this is the mantra to live by. We get so wrapped up in our egos, wanting "respect" for what we do, when we should actually WANT others to think it's no good. That's the safest thing.

Now mind you, you don't want to appear so weak that you INVITE trouble by someone looking for an easy target. But if trouble has come to you and doesn't want to look elsewhere, then LET THEM THINK YOU ARE WEAK!!

Like I posted earlier, you keep your pokerface. Encourage them to believe you have a lousy hand. Only AFTER the dealing and the betting are done, when it's too late to back out, you tip your cards and YOU SHOW THEM WHAT FIVE ACES LOOKS LIKE!!!

I like that. I think I'm gonna call my strategy Five Aces Kung Fu, or something...

 

[exile]

Only AFTER the dealing and the betting are done, when it's too late to back out, you tip your cards and YOU SHOW THEM WHAT FIVE ACES LOOKS LIKE!!!

I like that. I think I'm gonna call my strategy Five Aces Kung Fu, or something...

Now if only we can persuade people that an Ace is not just a rank in a pack of cards but also an animal of some sort, that name will sound absolutely canonical so far as Kung Fu styles go, eh?

 

[Flying Crane]

Now if only we can persuade people that an Ace is not just a rank in a pack of cards but also an animal of some sort, that name will sound absolutely canonical so far as Kung Fu styles go, eh?

heh heh, i was actually noticing that same coincidence...

 

[exile]

heh heh, i was actually noticing that same coincidence...

I was going to invoke the `great minds' effect here... but clearly, if that's the right story, than said invocation should be unnecessary, for the obvious reason, eh?

 

[Jeff L]

I'm not sure I'd call the image any been dragged through the mud any worse than what has been done to any form of MA in the public's eye and movies.


Then again, a friend of mine is quite fond of playing "Kung Fu Fighting" every time I go to his apartment.


As someone already pointed out, I think the average person has no idea that there is more than one form of Kung Fu, Karate, etc.

 

[MaartenSFS]

I'm not sure I'd call the image any been dragged through the mud any worse than what has been done to any form of MA in the public's eye and movies.


Then again, a friend of mine is quite fond of playing "Kung Fu Fighting" every time I go to his apartment.


As someone already pointed out, I think the average person has no idea that there is more than one form of Kung Fu, Karate, etc.

The average person is a bloody idiot.

 

[Nyrotic]

I work at SeaWorld, and on my nametag is says "Martial Artist". When asked what art I study, and when I reply "Kung Fu", people immediatlye go 'whoo' and put their hands up in crude looking wu saus.

...one guy actually joked about me being able to kick people in the head and jokingly asked if I could.....I demonstrated and stopped my foot an inch from his face...he stopped laughing.

 

[Jeff L]

The average person is a bloody idiot.

Well, you're not wrong there.

 

[count]

50 percent of all people are below average.

It's a fact.