Do you think life will be discovered on another planet in your lifetime?

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Chrisinmd, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I feel like that just goes to a phoneline no one uses, to prevent all the crazies from harassing actual employees about it.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    every star they can measure for planets has planets, they cant pick up small rocky planets a bit like our only gas giants like jupiter, so you can assume they exist or assume they don't.

    what does seem odd about our solar system is how the planets are arranged, with the big ones further away from the star. if jupiter was bombing around where venus is then there would be no earth, and it seems at one time long long ago it was doing just that

    but the figures are, a trillion stars in our galaxy, and a trillion galaxies in the observable universe , if one in a million has a rock planet the right distances that an awful lot of planets

    but there's a lot more than just being the right histance, it needs a magnetosphere,, big enough iron core to stay molten and give enough gravity to hold on to the atmosphere its need to have been bombarded by asteroids containing water, which it seems we have the movement of jupiter for, the tilt for seasons, the moon for tides.

    there's a very specific set of circumstances that allow live on earth to flourish that may not be replicated at all often
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I do consider the possibility that there may be more than one definition for 'life'. Possibly oxygen and a temperature anywhere near our planet isn't a necessity for some intelligent life to live out there somewhere.
    I do think we are a Long way from space travel and technology far enough to find it.
     
  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I find the theory that a black hole is helping 'hold' Jupiter in place intriguing. It is a very far distance from anything else of size however.
     
  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    all the stuff you mentioned was part of my “etc.” I just didn’t want to go on ad nauseum. You’re absolutely correct. The chances of another one like ours is very slight. But the shear size of the universe with the number of stars like you mention, I’d say the chances of not having at least one planet like ours out of everything out there is very slim.
     
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  6. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I know several airline pilots here who have used it. I just called it to say “hi” a couple minutes ago.

    I’m in that kind of frisky mood today.
     
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  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    the Copernican principle and statistics say that any life we find is vastly more likely to share our chemistry than not, so that would be oxygen and liquid water (or carbon dioxide and water)

    im not at all sure any one will be saying '' its life Jim, but not as we know it''

    as an aside, the planet had next to no free oxygen back at the beginning of life, the oxygen came from plants, spliting carbon dioxide into its constituent parts. it got so bad that an over abundance of oxygen nearly wiped out all life, one of the many near misses we have had, careful about planting tree, you can over do it
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    My guess is that we probably have already found life from other planets and we just don't realize it yet.

    Tardigrades would get my vote along with those strange deep sea fish that live where other animals cannot. Those environments are probably close to some of the conditions found on other planets.

    Typically we think of life based on what humans need to survive, but scientist probably look at a wider range of environments that support life. They probably rank intelligent life different as well. 90% in MT would probably die in the wilderness and have of that would probably die by doing stupid stuff like eating poisonous food, drinking bad water, or trying to pet snakes.

    The more civilized we get the more we do stupid things, like suggest exploding a nuke in a hurricane will stop the hurricane or eating Tide Pods. Soooo.. yeah it would probably be a good idea to classify the types of intelligence. lol.

    upload_2019-12-11_23-13-59.jpeg
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    panspermia, the seeding of life from elase where is a main stream theory and there are a number of candidates that could possibly survive the journey. if life did exist on mars there a fairly good chance it transferred from there, many millions of years cross the void of space is a bit more difficult, but possibly possible.

    intelligent life is general taken to mean technological life, so not pigs, dolphins and horses though they all have intelligence.

    there are three classes of intelligent ( technological ) life of which we haven't fully managed class 1 yet, that being projected to be 1/200 years away at the current state of development.

    its worth noting that mankind lost at least a thousand years of development, because of ( mostly) religious dogma, it took us a thousand years or so to get back to the level in place before the fall of the roman empire.

    it the reformation and leading to the '' age of reason'' had not happened we would still be driving round in horse and cart.

    its not that unlikely that a rebirth of religious fundamentalism ( and i include the current hysteria about climate change in that) will plunge us back in to the dark ages, so we may never get there
     
  10. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    The current hysteria of climate change could actually propel us forward - development of newer energy technologies and the like. The current hysteria is part (but not all) of what’s driving guys like Elon Musk. The uptick in solar panel and wind turbine tech too, among other things.
     
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    as far as im aware getting rich on the back of the hysteria is whats driving elon musk and a great deal of others

    were at least a 100 years away from efficient solar technology, as the moment you need to cover whole deserts to get a tiny fraction of our energy needs

    AND elon and his electric car ??? electric cars only move the pollution problem some where else, ie the power station, either they are burning fossil fuels or producing nuclear waste or wrecking whole ecosystems with dams. The last estimate i saw, was to reach our target of fully electric cars by 2030, we needed 8 power station built, at the moment we cant build even one, so that wont be happening

    the same eco lunies that are getting hot and bother about climate change also campaign against nuclear and wind farms and well everything that isn't a return to the 1400.

    someone should tell them their xbox wont work,
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    ha ha ha.. this sounds like an argument for why humans aren't intelligent lol.

    I trust the hysteria about climate change more than I do some of these other groups, like Flat earth society (picture below). There's no denial that climate change is happening. Much of the debate around climate change is how and why and that's where it gets crazy. I personally will champion the dangers of Cow Farts and would like to add Human Farts to the equation lol.. I'm pretty sure there are more human on the planets than cows.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I do agree with Jobo that there is a Lot of money being made on the hysteria of climate change. I fully agree that as a species humans do have an impact, just how much that is questionable to me. On a galactic scale, the 12° axis shift of the earth that appears to be increasing is a more rational and factually accurate explanation of not just mean temps but solar, storm, and wind changes.
     
  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Many of the bodies can't be removed because of the conditions, would be rescuers need extra oxygen etc so it's physically not possible but climbing Everest has turned into a big business, people just want to say they've climbed it, they don't care about anyone else.
     
  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    pointing out that one group of delusion lunatics aren't as bad as another group of more delusion lunatic doesn't really help the case much,

    im not convinced that flat earthers actually exist beyond religious dogma and those that should be institutionalised. there are quite a lot of people that have decided its a good way to make a living or are just doing it as thought experiment

    though its much the same type of people, those with a marked level of paranoia and an inability to challenge what they are told that buy into both dogmas

    we had an election last night and the green party( eco fascists) got a paltry 1% of the vote, that's reassuring that 99% of people aren't buying this nonsense that we are facing imminent extinction. though on the other hand1% of 70 million people is an awful lot of disturbed people in our midst. though i believe several magnitudes higher that flat earthers
     
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  16. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Very likely yes, and for a few reasons.

    Firstly, the building blocks of life are some of the most common 'stuff' in the known universe, and the combinant processes to get there are much more likely than once believed. So by current data, the stronger hypotheses are that life should be fairly common given the (rather broad)spectrum of possible environments life could start in, and the amount of possible planets that might meet this criteria.

    Life is inevitable.

    Second, the length of our lives (in general) is increasing not only because we live in better conditions than our predecessors but also because of advances in anti aging science. Some of us may live a long time indeed.(though probably not me personally)

    My bet is on Mars. They have already discovered water less than a foot under the ground(as the rovers scout for an optimal landing point for a manned mission). I feel like once there are people there investigating and doing science rovers just can't do, the chances are high they will find at least microbial life.
     
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  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Yeah that's only 1% from a particular issue. The other 99% may be crazy in other issues that are equally as bad.

    I know there are quite a few who thinks voting doesn't matter. I'm always reminding them that for something that doesn't matter, there are sure a lot of people in power who try to prevent or to take away voting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  18. Chrisinmd

    Chrisinmd Green Belt

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    I agree very likely yes. Not sure life is inevitable but in my opinion it is highly likely. Given the number of planets that we already know exist within the right distance from their sun to have liquid water it seems to me it is highly likely life developed their as well. What we don't know is how common is life on earth life planets? 1 in 100. 1 in 1 million. 1 in a billion?
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    as far as i've been following it, we currently know of two star systems that have rocky planets in the so called goldilocks zone, ours and one other, but we have no idea if they ( there are quite a number going round this star 5 or 7 from memory ) contain liquid water, have an atmosphere or a magnetosphere, all 3 of which seem a prerequisite for life

    having found one such system its a reasonable conclusion there are lots more, but we don't know that as fact

    water is abundant in the universe, however earth does have a great deal of it, far more than would occur during its formation, which is not fully understood where it came from, perhaps from being bombarded by asteroids, which may be a very unusual occurrence in other systems

    earths atmosphere is protected by its magnetosphere, which itself seems unusually large, because we have an unusually large iron core, that they don't understand why, possibly because earth and its moon is an amalgamation of two planets, so it has the iron core of two planets and then the gravity caused by the mass of nearly two planets which helps it keep hold of its atmosphere

    it also has a very unusually large moon for its size, which places a very strong gravitational pull and gives tides etc, that may or may not have created the conditions for life, as we have no idea what caused biogenis its hard to say

    venus is dead because it has to much volcanic activity, mars because it has to little, yet both are rocky planets in the zone, give or take a bit, life on earth has been made all but extinct by volcanic activities on at least two occasions and by asteroid strikes on another two, and it nearly died out because there was to much oxygen and was saved by volcanic activity

    its little short of a miracle that life survived at all.so even if life starts there no guarantee it will last all that long

    so its a little more than just a numbers game
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    the first bit is a very interesting point, humans are no more intelligent ( or less stupid) now than they have been for many thousands of years, it just took millenia for the sum of human knowledge to equal the the technological world we have now

    switch off all the silicon chips and burn whats left of the books and it will take us another 12 thousand years to get back to this point, as by and large the technological world has robbed us of the knowledge and skills to do anything other than return to the stone age and start again, just that raw materials will be a lot harder to get, any one seen a copper mine recently ?

    just as we wont be more intelligent when were a galactic empire, there will still be people thanking/blaming god for things123
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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