Do you ever feel as if the Wing Chun we Learn today isn't original?

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by ipmann97, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes and this is why I always say that nothing taught today is exactly as it was in the past. Simply teaching from one generation to the next causes things to change, because no student is exactly like his teacher, nobody understands it exactly like someone else. So even tho the intention might be to keep it the same, it will change. But that does not need to mean it degrades.
     
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  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    How would ancient WC people deal with "foot sweep" and "double legs"? When a WC guy stands in a narrow inward horse stance, his heel is exposed to his opponent. His opponent doesn't need to re-position the back foot position, he can sweep the WC guy's ankle with 1 move (sweep) instead of 2 moves (re-position back foot, sweep). Also since the narrow stance, it gives your opponent a great chance for "double legs".

    From the way that WC inward narrow horse stance was designed, the WC founder didn't not consider the weakness of that stance in enough detail. This weakness might not be a problem in the southern part of China (not many people used foot sweep and double legs in Canton, China). It's a problem in the 21th century today.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  3. obi_juan_salami

    obi_juan_salami Orange Belt

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    The WC guy moves? His not stuck in the ground. The stance and footwork are highly versitile and mobile.
     
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  4. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

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    @obi_juan_salami you might want to contact Sergio Iadarola. I think he did alot of research regarding the roots of Wing Chun and have a great understanding of the several lineages and systems of Wing Chun
     
  5. obi_juan_salami

    obi_juan_salami Orange Belt

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    Thanks for that. I am familiar with sergios work. His approach to both wing chun itself and the history of it is different and i dont really agree with either. But each to their own i guess. Seems to work for him and has made him a success.
     
  6. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

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    Well you can always disagree with him, but fact remain that he sat down and trained with masters of the art in the place of birth of these styles, so the guy did his research and collected plenty of facts.
     
  7. obi_juan_salami

    obi_juan_salami Orange Belt

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    Thats his experience and im not saying his wrong. I just dont agree in the origins he believes to have pieced together. I dont know the people he spoke to or trained with on a personal level.

    Id much rather base my belief on the history passed to me by my teachers, one of which was a student of sum nung, and my own research.
     
  8. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    You think no other fighter who gets taken down in either wrestling or fighting doesn't have the same idea to move?
     
  9. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    Yup.

    ...and there is this really cool concept called striking. :D
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I'm not talking about footwork. I'm talking about stance. Any stance that your opponent can get both of your legs at the same time is too risky. This was not a concern in the ancient China (wrestling was not involved). It's a valid concern today (wrestling, Judo, MMA are involved).

    Old saying said, "Get both legs if you can (double legs). Otherwise get one leg (single leg) first and get the other leg (inner hook) afterward." The wider that your stance is, the lower that your hands can protect your legs.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  11. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    I don't care if it comes from mars, if it works, it works. People don't fight the same today the way they did 200 years ago. My Wing Chun is evolved. Some people want to stick to using Paleolithic Wing Chun, then that's fine for them, not for me.
     
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  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You do sort of have a duty to teach a system that works though.

    I mean if someone was just cleaning house martial arts wise and then not teaching what got them to to be able to do that. I would be pretty upset.

    And so if they are doing some modified chun that works. But teaching the in modified version. That isn't cool.
     
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  13. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Why? I could be an amazing martial artist but never teach a day in my life. I'd agree that if I'm teaching, I should teach what works, not what doesn't, but I would never have a general duty to teach no matter how good I become.
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you teach.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you are integrating a new method in to your system.

    It has to have accountability.

    So if I did go to China and became fascinated with Wushu. I would still have to take it back home and laboratory test it to decide if it word and is appropriate.

    So if for example you think mobile footwork defeats takedowns. You have to defeat takedowns with it. Don't get caught up with the mouthboxing.

    Because that is where changing techniques becomes the issue you think it is.
     
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  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The footwork is a 2 edges sword. When you apply "forward pressure", you move into your opponent. Your forward movement can be a bonus for your opponent because he doesn't have to move forward too much. Your close the distance will become his close the distance. The issue is whether your hands can protect your legs in your high and narrow WC stance.

    Example can be seen at 0.32 of this clip. You want your opponent's head. Your opponent wants your legs.

     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  17. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Ok. So don't teach bad stuff if you know better stuff?
     
  18. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    Just FYI, WC has more stances than just this "high and narrow stance"...
    Stability THEN mobility. Transitioning as one needs them.
     
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  19. obi_juan_salami

    obi_juan_salami Orange Belt

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    Im glad someone gets it.
     
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  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    What stances?

    1. horse stance?
    2. 3-7 stance?
    3. 4-6 stance?
    4. bow arrow stance?
    5. empty stance?
    6. twisting stance?
    7. golden rooster stance?
    8. striking tiger stance?
    9. monkey stance?
    10. 7 stars stance?
    11. ...

    Can you put up a clip to show it?
     

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