Disarms

[Samurai]

Every Three Musketeers or Erol Flynn movie sword fight has sword disarms in them. I have yet to see a classical text with information on how to disarm. Can someone point me in that direction? I would love to see a website or two with classical fencing disarms.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays

PS- A good movie to rent is THE COUNT OF MONTO CISTO.

 

[thatoneguy]

sorry i dont think fencing is good for any disarms really
especialy as the more fighting oriented skills are forgoten and replaced with the more sport oriented moves
but there are some moves that on could use from oriental styles
or even krav maga you might want to look at that sort of thing

 

[Despairbear]

Dissarms are not allowed in fencing to my knowlage. As far as sword play goes, your best disarm (in my opinion) is to use a blade with a cutting edge and aim for the wrist to sever the hand or the fingers to sever them.


Despair Bear

 

[thatoneguy]

well one can sort of dis arm an opponect but it is more like a strong beat to the blade using your blade then on imeadiatly has to cut ones opponet in one action or the rules stop the match
they pick up there wepond and the director calls fence again

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

There was a couple of disarms in the new Count Of Monte Cristo. I'm not a fencer so I can't vouch for their reality, although they did look cool.
Maybe you can learn a few arnis disarms and apply them to fencing?

 

[Despairbear]

I think we may need to state the differance here between fencing the sport and swordplay the MA. Grappleing and core' de core' (sp?) are to fencing what knife fighting is to boxing. Swordplay is another matter anything can go.




Despair Bear

 

[arnisador]

I think fencing disarms are mostly theatric, even if one is speaking more generally than sport fencing.

 

[Samurai]

The orginial question was a search for classical fencing texts on disarms. I was not looking at Fencing as a sport. I want to find 1600-1700s books of SWORDSMANSHIP with these disarms in them.

IMHO anytime you take a true martial art and make a sport out of it, you loss something........just look at wrestling, boxing, Judo, Karate, and fencing. This is not to say that value can not be found in these sports, it is just they are no longer designed to kill or maim and it fact have lost the true purpose.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok...Disarms...with swords...

Not quite 'fencing' but possibly applicable. Heres a few links that might help:

http://www.thehaca.com/photos/seizures.htm
http://www.ahfi.org/wmaw2001/synopsis.htm
http://www.nuerble.com/kabal/fa&s2.htm
http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/interandapp.htm

Though this seems to disagree with the above:
http://www.historicalfencing.org/Ken's_library/pages/Fencing04.htm

This "classical age" was really the fullest development of the art. While fencing has changed quite a bit since the nineteenth century, it had reached a recognizable form by this time. Though fencing, like dueling itself, became more formal, forbidding the use of such techniques as disarms, the skills of fencing always remained grounded in reality. Duels were serious affairs, and not infrequently ended with disfiguring or fatal results. Likewise, disarms and other "rough play" continued to be taught, if not used, and have passed down to the present time in certain traditional schools.

Hope that helps.

 

[westernwarrior]

Samurai

Alright, the 17-18th century isn't really my specialty, so I'll just direct you to some sources. There are disarms for swords in that time period, they just are a little uncommon. If you haven't already, go to http://www.aemma.org/library_top.htm and start hunting. Also, I would suggest you talk to Maestro Martinez, as he is one of the foremonst teachers of classical fencing in America. His website is http://www.martinez-destreza.com/

On a side note, there seems to be some confusion on the word "fencing". Historically, fencing was a term for all armed combat. You could fence with a spear as well as a sword. In the Western Martial Arts community, we generally say olympic fencing to distinguish between the modern sport and combative fencing with other weapons.

 

[arnisador]

I've heard this usage before--to fence with a spear or the like.