Difficult Forms!

[Tony]

I've just started to learn this new form in class, its a Praying Mantis form and seems to have lots of unusual movements, and moves that are awkward to perform as well. But When I see it demonstrated it looks awesome.
The problem is when learning a new form I am always shown something different from a different person, therefore I'm probably making so many mistakes. I'm a senior grade now ( Yellow Sash) but at the moment I am being helped by someone lower than me. I think my forms could do with some improvement but I know my fighting ability has some promise as I am very flexible.
Looking at this Praying Mantis form I have started to analyse it and I am puzzled as to how some of the moves can be practical, especially the bit where you are standing on one leg, left knee in the air and leaning over to your right with one arm up and the other down. I am very interested in applying some of the forms in actual encounters but I can't see how you could use that particular move described!

 

[clfsean]

I've just started to learn this new form in class, its a Praying Mantis form and seems to have lots of unusual movements, and moves that are awkward to perform as well. But When I see it demonstrated it looks awesome.

It works... takes a little practice but it works.

The problem is when learning a new form I am always shown something different from a different person, therefore I'm probably making so many mistakes. I'm a senior grade now ( Yellow Sash) but at the moment I am being helped by someone lower than me.

You're shown something differe by each person because each person is different. My sifu is 6'2" & about 250... his sifu is about 5'3" & 150. They move incredibly different but do the same motions, but the motions are done to fit their body. There's no mold you can just hop into & become something you're not. When you do a punch, you punch as your body allows & feels. You may try imitate your teacher initially to learn the motion, but then your body will change it to fit. Same way when people teach.

Why are you being "helped" by a lower level than yourself?

I think my forms could do with some improvement but I know my fighting ability has some promise as I am very flexible. Looking at this Praying Mantis form I have started to analyse it and I am puzzled as to how some of the moves can be practical, especially the bit where you are standing on one leg, left knee in the air and leaning over to your right with one arm up and the other down. I am very interested in applying some of the forms in actual encounters but I can't see how you could use that particular move described!

Ok... a "possible" application for the motion you've described is your left leg is up changing your perspective & angle of attack & possibly moving out of the way of an attack on it, you've either grabbed or intercepted a punch with the left hand (I guess that's the high hand) & you've pulled somebody up & away from their body as you strike down & over them with the other. I'd need to see the technique to be sure.

 

[7starmantis]

I'd have to see it as well, but many times bringing the leg up like you described could be using is as a knee to the chest of your opponent or evading an attack or sweep, or even setting up for a kick. The key is not staying in that position. Everything in mantis moves quickly to another technique. If you sat there on one leg you would be incredibly open for many attacks.

7sm

 

[Tony]

Hi Clfsean

Thanks for your insight! The reason I'm going through this form with this lower grade is because she seems to have picked it up better then me and she is able to ask for help, because being shy I find it difficult but anyway I've been practicing it at work and at home so I think I'm getting better.
I'm just concentrating on getting the moves together and I'll worry about the proper postures later. My other instructor was saying to me to work on this form more, more than the other because this is the hardest he's right it feels so hard but I will get there!
Tuesday night my instructor made everyone but me and the girl I was working with demonstrate in front of the class. thank god he didn't ask me because this is something I don't particularly enjoy and if thats not bad enough sometimes he will ask everyone for their opinions on the each person's form.
I've been looking at this form and its really been making me think, why those movements are there, what they could be used for etc.

 

[7starmantis]

I'm just taking a stabb in the dark. Are you learning Bong Bo ?

7sm

 

[Tony]

I'd have to see it as well, but many times bringing the leg up like you described could be using is as a knee to the chest of your opponent or evading an attack or sweep, or even setting up for a kick. The key is not staying in that position. Everything in mantis moves quickly to another technique. If you sat there on one leg you would be incredibly open for many attacks.

7sm

Hi 7*

Well in this form there are kicks, mostly jumping kicks and manits strikes.
The move I was describing , you cross your hands, and cross your left foot over your right foot, then you raise your left hand up and out with a mantis hand and the right hand is down by the side also in a mantis hand and your left knee is raised in the air, then you bring your hands down again crossing them and crossing your feet again and repeat a second time. And then you do this on the other side once. Its hard to describe i words and I'm doing the best I can as i can't physically show you. But it does feel very awkward!

 

[Tony]

I have no idea if its called that in Chinese but My instructor simply calls it Mantis. We don't use too much Chinese terminology except for some postures and a couple of forms. So for example whe we're being drilled out instructor may say "dragon fist punch" or sun fist" and when we bow my Instructor will say "goh gum". But we really don't use any chinese names for any techniques much.

 

[7starmantis]

Cool, the reason I ask is that most styles that touch on mantis usually learn Bong Bo. What style are you actually training in again? I can't really picture exactly what you’re explaining, but it sounds like a knee attack or evading a sweep. In mantis everything is done with something else. If you evade a technique you’re also attacking at the same time, it is hard to get down and hard to understand sometimes.

7sm

 

[Tony]

I train in Shaolin Long Fist kung Fu. The actual chinese name of our club is Bak Shaolin Wushu pai. There are elements of many animal systems such as Eagle and Praying Mantis. Our website is www.aftma.org.uk.

 

[clfsean]

Hi Clfsean

Thanks for your insight! The reason I'm going through this form with this lower grade is because she seems to have picked it up better then me and she is able to ask for help, because being shy I find it difficult but anyway I've been practicing it at work and at home so I think I'm getting better.

Gotcha...

By you practicing it, you're getting better with it. Not practicing it will cause you to not progress. When I'm learning a new set I tend to just walk through them to allow the muscles to develop a rythym & memory of the motion. Then I start blowing through it faster. Once I'm confident it with it (a month or so), then I remove the brakes & go full speed.

I'm just concentrating on getting the moves together and I'll worry about the proper postures later. My other instructor was saying to me to work on this form more, more than the other because this is the hardest he's right it feels so hard but I will get there!

No don't set the postures aside! They're key to performing the set & setting up your next motion. Learn the posture, let your body feel what's correct. The linking of motions is the easy part... having you body flow between them like it's supposed to is the hard part. That's why I say learn the posture. Feel how you sit in the stance, your hands end of a block or punch, your shoulders relax after that, etc.... Motion is easy, posture is practice.

Tuesday night my instructor made everyone but me and the girl I was working with demonstrate in front of the class. thank god he didn't ask me because this is something I don't particularly enjoy and if thats not bad enough sometimes he will ask everyone for their opinions on the each person's form.
I've been looking at this form and its really been making me think, why those movements are there, what they could be used for etc.

Eh... performance is a thing. Not a big deal. It's an easy way to get past your shyness. Besdies don't worry about what people think of how you perform the set, just perform it to the absolute best of your ability & you will be ok. So you may not be as fast as everybody else or whatever, but if you make say... "Mantis Catches Cicada" look & feel strong, secure & applicable, people
will notice remember. There will always be detractors & critics. BFD... maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but they're students just like you.

Did you not learn applications for the motions as you learned it?? I'm guessing not, but I had to ask.

 

[Tony]

Well I've been practicing that form a lot and I'm sure I will get better and I'
ve been practicing my other forms just so that I never forget. But I can't wait to start learning some more weapon forms.

 

[7starmantis]

I really like playing my forms very very slow then gradually picking up speed with each time I do the form. I end up doing one form like 4 times, but thats the best way to really engrain the timing and body mechanics of it.

7sm

 

[Silo-Fu Kung-Fu]

Tony:
We do a bit of Northren mantis and I find it to be a very nasty form/style.
Do not get the little green bug mad at you

as for the move you were describing imagine you have your opponents wrist in your left hand, your right hand on his shoulder.

As the right hand goes down (pushing the shoulder down) the left hand lifts (rasing your opponents arm up) this is a great way to push your opponent down in to a rising knee strike. AKA the stance with one leg up as you were refering to.

of course you can swith hands and strike with the other knee as well.