Dick Tercell "suicide"

[KenpoDave]

Gary, no one has responded to your question of Dick Tercell, the kenpo crest, and his death.

My understanding from what I was told is that the creation of the crest and Tercell's death are completely unrelated.

There is an exercise (I have photos of it in a shaolin book) where people hang themselves by the neck and meditate. The "hanging" is not around the throat, but rather the rope, looped, is under the chin, NOT obstructing the airway. The participant hangs in a lotus position, basically supporting his body weight by his chin, which I imagine is a tremendous neck workout.

Obviously, this is a dangerous exercise, and my understanding is that Tercell was practicing it alone and died during the exercise from asphyxiation.

Although a suicide because he killed himself, it was apparently not an intentional death, but a misfortune.

Saying that Tercell created the crest, Parker used it, and Tercell committed suicide may be technically accurate, but misleading. :asian:

 

[punisher73]

I have also heard negative spins about the death that it wasn't a kung fu exercise but an auto-erotic thing where you cut the blood off right before you "peak".

Not saying that is what happened, but that both stories have circulated.

 

[GAB]

Hi Kenpo Dave,
I have been reading the posts on the San Jose Kenpo board, it is an interesting discussion.

I have not pursued it as much as I would like to, right now I am pretty busy remolding a rental and selling it, so my time has been taken up.

I did e-mail Jimmy Wing Woo but as of yet no answer.

It did happen along time ago and it is as some might say, the dark side of Kenpo. But I am going to follow it up for several reasons.

Thanks for the information.

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

"Dark Side of Kenpo" a Kung Fu stunt pulled by a Kung Fu teacher in a KUng Fu school.
it's the dark side of something all right
Todd

 

[John Bishop]

Hi Kenpo Dave,
I have been reading the posts on the San Jose Kenpo board, it is an interesting discussion.

I did e-mail Jimmy Wing Woo but as of yet no answer.

Gary, please don't assume that Mr. Woo will contact you and tell all. He is a very traditional and honorable teacher. He will probably be practical about it, and presume that it's none of your business, since these things happened long ago, and did not involve you. To him, you are a stranger, butting into his business.

It did happen along time ago and it is as some might say, the dark side of Kenpo. But I am going to follow it up for several reasons.

Thanks for the information.
Regards, Gary

What dark side are you talking about? People die all the time. Some by accident, some by illiness, some by the hand of others, some by their own hand.
Are you trying to infer that someone caused his death because they wanted to steal his patch design? Or, that he was so distraught over not getting credit for a patch design, that he commited suicide? Both thoughts are ludicrous.
I'm sure there are some kenpo seniors here who know what was going on in Tercel's personal life at the time that may have contributed to his death, accidental, or intentional. They've probably not spoken up, out of respect for his memory or any family he may still have.

If you want to discuss the dark side of martial arts and death, then James Mitose is a good topic. Or the Chicago Dojo wars started by Count Dante (John Keehan) and how they led to the stabbing death of Jim Koncivic. Now those are real dark sides of the martial arts.

 

[KenpoDave]

Are you trying to infer that someone caused his death because they wanted to steal his patch design? Or, that he was so distraught over not getting credit for a patch design, that he commited suicide? Both thoughts are ludicrous.

That is the point I was trying to get across.

from http://www.americankenpo.com

"The emblem was used by the KKAA from 1960 to 1964 when Ed Parker resigned from that organization to head the International Kenpo Karate Association (IKKA). While Ed loved the design of the KKAA patch, he openly expressed bitterness over the 1961 "defection" when all of his black belts and many of his top students, including Dick Tercell, left him.
Tercell died in 1962 while unsuccessfully practicing a kung fu technique in which he hanged himself. His death was ruled a suicide.
After the "Parker Patch" was designed, Ed continued experimenting with designs for a new emblem. He was not satisfied with the Tercell emblem because it was not his own design. He also wanted a patch that would make a complete break from the past. "

There is nothing here to suggest that Tercell killed himself because he was upset about not getting credit for the patch.

 

[GAB]

Hi John,

I was trying to run this down to maybe, find more information regarding the statements about Dick Tercell not commiting suicide, even though it was ruled one.

You say ludicrous, yes maybe, maybe not?

That is the reason I brought it up, I am leaving the decision process up to folks that might know and give me the information, you have that thought.

Someone else has another, I am just trying to clairify, why Will Tracy would bring it up, make a big deal about it, if it was not a big deal?

I believe you are correct in saying seniors are not wanting to talk about it. I am a senior and I would like to talk about it. I am not some new guy, I am battle proven and I know it, thats all that counts with me.

Talk to people who know me, I don't care. I have been fighting battles for as long as I can remember, is that good, maybe yes maybe no. Just another opinion.

To much name calling going on as far as I am concerned. If we were face to face no one in their right mind would talk to me like they do on this board, I don't give a S*** who they are. So my opinion. Can I back it up, I think so. So big deal.

If you were curious and asked a question, if I had knowledge, I would let you know, maybe not on a forum, but I would find a covert way to suppy you with the information.

Just looking for the truth, yes, Mitose is a real problem for me also.
I am always asking people who I know about it. I am baffled at the idea because someone in the early history is a killer and bad guy in one martial art, is revered and in another disowned? I know the way he went about it or so they say.

I have heard alot of bad things said, about Wyatt Earp and then someone else say's just the opposite.

Legends and bad guys pretty much what America is all about.

We can only look at the good things? I am not sure that is very correct either. Especially when the person dies and then out comes the truth from someone else, or the opinion that was never stated while alive.

Both the people who are very well known in the Ed Parker lineage, the late Ed Parker himself and Al Tracy, they both teach Kenpo or did, one will go back to the originater and the other won't.

So we have problems, so that is the story of most of the martial arts.

Am I a s***head because I look at this from a different angle? It is the history of the arts that I am looking for not the ability of them to Kick ***

Been there, done that, as some like to say. Unlike a lot of the typists of these boards, I still can, so big deal. We are stirring the pot see what rises to the top.

I am only investigating one thought or another, iritates some, some it doesn't.

Looking for the truth, it is always not, as obvious as it seems.

How about this one. I know a relative who did not know that her dad commited suicide until she heard it from a friend.
Was she mad at the friend?NO, she was mad at all the people who would not or did not tell her the truth. Truth hurts, if it is the truth, well that is life, they can report it in the papers but your relatives or friends or seniors won't talk about it.

I then look for why? What is the agenda of these who won't talk.

Regards, Gary

 

[Karazenpo]

I have also heard negative spins about the death that it wasn't a kung fu exercise but an auto-erotic thing where you cut the blood off right before you "peak".

Not saying that is what happened, but that both stories have circulated.

Punisher73, that was my first guess too, we've had a several of those (auto-erotic thing) in my area over the last decade or so and they are ruled accidental. Again, that was my first guess but then I saw the year it happened, 1962. I could be wrong but I don't think it was even heard of then. I know it was something fairly new to us in law enforcement when they occurred and that was something like three decades after his untimely death.

 

[GAB]

Hi Dave,

The website you posted is a good one when you go into it click on Dick Tercell, that is the part of the story I find interesting.

Ed Parker could not copyright, because Will Tracy did? Why, What, When, Who.

See that is why I am interested, not the other stuff.

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

Gary (GAB):

You've started and posted on several "Kenpo" threads here. I know somewhere you said that you were a Kajukenbo white belt in the 60s or 70s. Could you let us know what your background is in Kenpo?
From some of your questions or statements, it dosen't appear that you are, or have been involved in Kenpo very long.
Nothing wrong with that, but for someone that refer's to themselves as a "senior", you ask some questions that should be common knowledge for seniors.

 

[Karazenpo]

John, I think Gary studied under Sifu John Leoning (don't know how long) so it had to be a while ago since Sifu Leoning passed away in 1977. Gary?

 

[John Bishop]

John, I think Gary studied under Sifu John Leoning (don't know how long) so it had to be a while ago since Sifu Leoning passed away in 1977. Gary?

Gary's told me that the was a white belt under Johnny Leoning. I'm just trying to get a feel for the rest of his background in Kenpo.
I mean I was a Judo white belt in 1958, but I would never refer to myself as a "senior" in Judo.

Off the subject for a minute Joe, you watching the Texan/Raider game. Our Kajukenbo boys on the Texans are really putting it to the Raiders. We got 7 Kajukenbo boys on the Texans, and 7 on the Vikings. Kajukenbo's inflitrated the NFL.
Go Texans, Sifu Kailee Wong#52, Aaron Glenn#31, Jaimie Sharper#55, Shantee Orr#53, Robaire Smith#99, Marcus Coleman#42, Domanick Davis#37

 

[The Kai]

Gary

How do you know Dick tercell? Was he a friend or relative? You seem really concerned about this point that has been laid to rest (excuse please the un intentional pun).
Todd

 

[GAB]

Hi, John, Joe and anyone else remotely interested.

I was not and never have been what you would consider a person who sought the belts.

I am a senior in age and battle scars and number of fights I have been in and prevailed, not a kenpo senior, nor an aikido senior, not a person who has a lot of time in one particular art as far as going to a class etc, I do drills, I do work outs, I hit the bags for hours at a time, I have many books I read, if what you are asking as far as a senior in any organization, no, I am my own senior, if that makes no sense to you, but it does to me.

I have studied Hanshi Bruce through Books, Katas, videos, sons and grandsons, that were and are going for the belts and got them.

I ask questions even if I know the subject, and the answer.

I have worked out for years and still do at different times at a dojo, if I want some hands on training in a new art, with my son or my friend Kel, sometimes at the house.

I am a senior in age and knowledge, don't let the lateral or oblique throw you off, I will always answer straight when asked, but I will some times ramble and talk in ways that are confusing on these boards, or so I have been told.

Kai, as far as the Dick Tercell story, I wrote a lot about it and my reasons, no relative. The story is the interest. Does that seem strange to you? Did curiosity kill the cat? I don't think so.

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

gab

So you know it is a case of self inflicted death?
Mr. Tercell designed the Crest?
Actually copywrited by Tracy's ?

What is the question/inference that you are digging for?
Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Gary's told me that the was a white belt under Johnny Leoning. I'm just trying to get a feel for the rest of his background in Kenpo.
I mean I was a Judo white belt in 1958, but I would never refer to myself as a "senior" in Judo.

Off the subject for a minute Joe, you watching the Texan/Raider game. Our Kajukenbo boys on the Texans are really putting it to the Raiders. We got 7 Kajukenbo boys on the Texans, and 7 on the Vikings. Kajukenbo's inflitrated the NFL.
Go Texans, Sifu Kailee Wong#52, Aaron Glenn#31, Jaimie Sharper#55, Shantee Orr#53, Robaire Smith#99, Marcus Coleman#42, Domanick Davis#37

Great John, I had no idea about the 'Kaju guys' on the Texans and the Vikings! I'll make a point to catch their next games. Thanks.

 

[GAB]

Hi Kai,

At this point and time I am looking for information, just like Dave, or John, got back to me, and participated, does it clear it up? :idunno:

Did you see the headlines on the front of the Enquirer?

I was at the store and saw the new headlines on the face of the Enquirer, O. J. revisited, check it out.

Some of us have nothing better to do, and some of us have a full plate and go back for more.

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi all,

Texans by nature are fighters, I have met quite a few and they all seem to be pretty proud and fast on the draw.

Even while in the White House, don't seem to go down easy. They did lose at the Alamo, so did anyone who wanted to make a movie about it?

I have a neighbor who is from Texas, still loves the team win lose or draw.
Very loyal, well there are quite a few who still love the red, white and blue.

Back to the subject of my seniorship, I am a carpenter been one for over fifty years, considering my apprenticeship with my dad at the young age of about 12.
I went into the Marines (17), came out went to the union served my apprenticeship went into Law Enforcement, still was a carpenter, lots of side jobs for coppers.

Retired out of Metro Division LAPD. ( remember them Swat in the late 60s early 70s very pro aggressive police work) Yea, I know.
That was then this is now. They still are and always will be, The Best OK?

Police Departments from all over the world come to train with them.

Just like Hanshi Bruce and the martial arts world.

I now do and for many decades along with that. Residental building from the ground up, all phases of the work, I do it from digging in the ground, to closing the latch on the door. I am multipurpose, do my own thing.

So to clarify I am an Agnostic and that pretty much sums up the way I think and do things, Semper Fi.

Regards, Gary

 

[Oak Bo]

Retired out of Metro Division LAPD. ( remember them Swat in the late 60s early 70s very pro aggressive police work) Yea, I know.
That was then this is now. They still are and always will be, The Best OK?

Gary,

I tip my hat to you sir, you guys alway's did a great job!
:asian: