DF: MMA Sport fighting and Kung Fu combative, the real difference...

[Clark Kent]

MMA Sport fighting and Kung Fu combative, the real difference...
By TigerClaw - 01-10-2009 12:28 PM
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

In Boxing or MMA fighting there are limited techniques that are used. I know some will take issue with this statement, but it is true. In boxing there are five moves or so, and in MMA there are a great many more. But all the techniques are designed to work in a full contact environment of a sport situation. It is easy to go full contact because these moves, and with the gloves on it is not as dangerous as the many kung fu moves without gloves.

In Kung fu, many of the techniques can only be done without gloves, such as grabbing, locking, or trapping arms, spearing techniques, clawing techniques locking the head, neck etc, vital strikes etc. Also, there are many breaking techniques that are used in Kung Fu. If we strip out all the very dangerous techniques of kung fu then it would not be a good representation of a Kung Fu technique and the Kung Fu fighter would be limited.

Imagine a kung Fu man going into a ring with a Boxer, and he is told that he cannot do most of his kung fu, he can only use the five moves or so that are done for the sport fighting in the ring with big red gloves. And he cannot kick. I am not saying he would not be able to still do well, I believe he could. But this would not be a good representation of Kung Fu.

So when doing sparing, even full contact sparing. it is needful to PULL techniques (or to hold back the full contact strike). If a Kung Fu fighter got into the ring with a MMA fighter, he may get into a sprawling, grappling situation and quickly flare his fingers at the eyes of the opponent, or do a pheonix strike at his temple etc., but he would pull the technique or else serious injury would follow. The other fighter would not consider this a real attack, because he is unhurt, so he continues to grapple to the ground, if he can, and as he does this the Kung Fu man locks his head and just slightly twist the neck, (pulling his technique so he does not break the neck), but the grappler does not feel the full contact and he is unhurt so he just keeps going on in his technique, then the Kung Fu man is on the ground and he sees a opening at the groin and he attacks there but pulls his technique so as not to seriously hurt the opponent, yet the grappler only recoils slightly at the attack and he is unhurt so he continues to attack. Then the Kung Fu man sees an opening at the throat and attack it, but pulls his clawing technique so as not to seriously hurt the grappler and the grappler does not feel hurt so he ignores it and attacks more, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

So in this situation, we can see that the grappler would have been seriously hurt many times if not dead in combat. But because he did not feel the full force of the attack, he assumes it did not work on him and so he continues. That is sort of how things work out in real fighting full contact and real fighting sport . I understand that the fights are SPORT and not real life SURVIVAL COMBAT. But I think that is part of the problem. When you ask a combative fighter who thinks and trains for survival to forget all that and just jump into a totally different kind of fighting environment and fight SPORT fighting with many rules and restrictions, this is different and cannot truly represent the techniques he would use in real combat.

But against a grappler outside of the ring, many times the fight will not get to the ground as I believe. There are many Kung Fu techniques that are available from a stand up position. But if it does go to the ground, it depends on how skilled each person is in real combat situations, not sport fighting, but combat fighting. Many times it will be whoever can get to the vitals first, or the breaks etc. Again I am speaking of masters of their styles, not novices.

Anyway, that is how I see it. there is a big difference from Kung Fu to Sport MMA. Even though there are many techniques from Kung Fu that can be used in such a situation, there are other techniques that would need to be pulled or held back. And so the SPORT fighting with rules and restrictions which is designed for full contact fighting in a Sport environment, is much different than Kung Fu that is not a SPORT and was not designed for full contact SPORT fighting, but for full contact SURVIVAL COMBAT FIGHTING.

So, I hope this discussion will forever clarify the issue and why we may not se many Kung Fu practitioners in such arenas. For me it is not just these things but a moral issue and the fact that I teach others to use Kung Fu only for self defense and helping others.


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[Nolerama]

:deadhorse

Here we go again...

 

[Tez3]

:deadhorse

Here we go again...

Yep! the weather here's been cold though it's forecast rain, what's it like your way?

 

[hkfuie]

Yep! the weather here's been cold though it's forecast rain, what's it like your way?

Yep. Cold here too. 'Course, it's January...

How's training going these days? Back in the swing of things after the holidays?

 

[Steve]

Yep. Cold here too. 'Course, it's January...

How's training going these days? Back in the swing of things after the holidays?

I'm finally getting back into the gym regularly. Glad to hear everyone's well.

 

[Sukerkin]

:lol:

It would appear that I am the only one to agree with Clark and who does not think that this horse is dead but instead should be ridden out at every sport-fighting venue with nice big placards explaining the point in detail so we don't get any more generations who claim that "MMA is the roxxorz and that kung fu **** sux" .

 

[Tez3]

:lol:

It would appear that I am the only one to agree with Clark and who does not think that this horse is dead but instead should be ridden out at every sport-fighting venue with nice big placards explaining the point in detail so we don't get any more generations who claim that "MMA is the roxxorz and that kung fu **** sux" .

Well come up to our charity show ( for Help for Heroes) in April and we'll convert you to the sweet art of MMA...of course if you fancy doing a sword display.....? :ultracool

Weather wet, dark and 'orrible today lol!

 

[Anthony Walmsley]

MMA Sport fighting and Kung Fu combative, the real difference...
By TigerClaw - 01-10-2009 12:28 PM
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

Anyway, that is how I see it. there is a big difference from Kung Fu to Sport MMA. Even though there are many techniques from Kung Fu that can be used in such a situation, there are other techniques that would need to be pulled or held back. And so the SPORT fighting with rules and restrictions which is designed for full contact fighting in a Sport environment, is much different than Kung Fu that is not a SPORT and was not designed for full contact SPORT fighting, but for full contact SURVIVAL COMBAT FIGHTING.

So, I hope this discussion will forever clarify the issue and why we may not se many Kung Fu practitioners in such arenas. For me it is not just these things but a moral issue and the fact that I teach others to use Kung Fu only for self defense and helping others.

Thanks for posting, 'couldn't agree with you more.
If you'd like an exchange on training methods, please contact me privately.
Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

 

[jarrod]

*yawn* hey guys, i just got here, what's up?

oh, mma vs teh deadlies again.

anthony, our friend clark here is a newsbot; a program that scours the web for content of interest & posts it here, so the only training he'll be doing is in the matrix. which means he alread knows kung fu!

welcome to the forum though!

jf

 

[bowser666]

All I can say is that the Sport of MMA will undoubtedly fade away as a trend IMO. Kind of liek Roller Derby It might still be around but Kung Fu has been around for a long, long time, and will continue to be around. MMA fanboys really crack me up with their Superiority complex. If SPORT fighting is what they want to do then good for them. It's not , nor ever will , be my cup of tea. It just cracks me up how quick most are to dismiss TMA that have been around for a long time, and are the very foundations of what they train in lol. Oh well......................

 

[Hagakure]

Well come up to our charity show ( for Help for Heroes) in April and we'll convert you to the sweet art of MMA...of course if you fancy doing a sword display.....? :ultracool

Weather wet, dark and 'orrible today lol!

Actually, both sound really cool.

MMA bout, and samurai swords, what could be better?

 

[Tez3]

All I can say is that the Sport of MMA will undoubtedly fade away as a trend IMO. Kind of liek Roller Derby It might still be around but Kung Fu has been around for a long, long time, and will continue to be around. MMA fanboys really crack me up with their Superiority complex. If SPORT fighting is what they want to do then good for them. It's not , nor ever will , be my cup of tea. It just cracks me up how quick most are to dismiss TMA that have been around for a long time, and are the very foundations of what they train in lol. Oh well......................

Ok here we go again.
Thank you so much for your thoughts on MMA, you realise of course how superior you sound, how dismissive, how disrespectful and plain rude you are being?
Martial Talk is not the place for you to disrespect so blatantly other peoples styles and sports. I am not an MMA fanboy, I'm not even a boy but never have I or other MMAers that I know disrespected TMA, in fact most of us practice a TMA along side MMA. I even know a CMA practicing MMAer.


We're hoping for a good show with lots of money coming in for H2H, they plan to build a convalescent centre in Catterick for wounded service people to be near their families and mates so we're going all out to raise as much as possible.

 

[bowser666]

Ok here we go again.
Thank you so much for your thoughts on MMA, you realise of course how superior you sound, how dismissive, how disrespectful and plain rude you are being?
Martial Talk is not the place for you to disrespect so blatantly other peoples styles and sports. I am not an MMA fanboy, I'm not even a boy but never have I or other MMAers that I know disrespected TMA, in fact most of us practice a TMA along side MMA. I even know a CMA practicing MMAer.


We're hoping for a good show with lots of money coming in for H2H, they plan to build a convalescent centre in Catterick for wounded service people to be near their families and mates so we're going all out to raise as much as possible.

I am not sounding superior Tez. I am simply saying that each has it's place. What matters most is the person's preference and what they hope to gain from it. Maybe it is bad publicity but from my experience MMA seems to be mostly Chest thumping and testosterone festivals, for the sake of a trophy or something material. The more I think about it , that is probably the case. Thats how it is being marketed by the UFC's and Elite XC's etc......... Don't blame me for getting that impression , if that is how it is portrayed. I have much respect for the fighters and all the training and challenges that they encounter.

It was not my intention to be rude , I guess I am just used to all the jerks from You Tube type communities that are quick to make a post on a TMA thread and say " Kimbo would beat his as etc........ stuff like that. People always try to make it into a mine is better than yours. I am simply just saying that everything has it's place and that you can't compare apples to baseball bats in that sense. Two totally different things. I will politely back out of this one because this always seems to be the hottest and most sensitive topic in this forum. I will jsut leave these type posts alone in the future.


With all due respect.........................

 

[Nolerama]

I am not sounding superior Tez.

Tez, is that a real event? If so, did you find it difficult to get sponsors (if any)?

That sounds like a really good, localized event that could make some good money for a cause, as well as notoriety for the fighters.

 

[Andrew Green]

All I can say is that the Sport of MMA will undoubtedly fade away as a trend IMO. Kind of liek Roller Derby It might still be around but Kung Fu has been around for a long, long time, and will continue to be around. MMA fanboys really crack me up with their Superiority complex. If SPORT fighting is what they want to do then good for them. It's not , nor ever will , be my cup of tea. It just cracks me up how quick most are to dismiss TMA that have been around for a long time, and are the very foundations of what they train in lol. Oh well......................

MMA was there in ancient Greece, probably predating any organized form of Kung Fu.

Sport fighting in general is definitely older then any Kung Fu practice, you might even say sport fighting is more "traditional" then stylized patterns that make up the core of kung fu, and kung fu based systems.

 

[jarrod]

i think that whoever makes blanket disparities about entire arts whether they are traditional or sport is most likely pretty insecure in their own training. honestly i dont hear a lot of mma fighters or people who actually train mma rip on other arts, just like you don't hear the really advanced practitioners of traditional arts rip on mma. because each is secure in what they do, & is not doing it for anyone else's approval.

jf

 

[Tez3]

Tez, is that a real event? If so, did you find it difficult to get sponsors (if any)?

That sounds like a really good, localized event that could make some good money for a cause, as well as notoriety for the fighters.

We have so far run over 30 MMA fight nights, this one is for charity. Micheal Bisping had his first pro fight on our show. We've got many fighters interested as well as fans. We have a fight night in Feb to do first then we'll be all out publicising the April one. This is us, it's a new site this week!
www.prideandglory.biz

MMA in this country at least (and I have no doubt it's not that different in shows in the States) other than UFC, is not a chest thumping festival with macho men. Far from it, the fighters are all decent martial artists who enjoy fighting, its the only place I've been where egos don't rule nor aggression. All the fighting is done in the ring/cage, outside these are cool guys and girls.

Most come from a TMA background, some from MT or boxing. Many still practice their first art. It couldn't be further from the U TUbe idiots. I wish you could all see the shows here, the promotions work together to make sure we produce good shows and without exception the MMA is of a good standard, sportsmanlike and with rare crowd trouble. Sponsorship isn't hard to find for any shows.

On all our shows we raise money by raffles etc for the Service charities, we've raised money for the Paras, the Scots Div and the Anglians, all regiments who took heavy losses in Afghanistan. Several of our own fighters are soldiers. Other promotions do this too for charities such as childrens, cancer research etc.

In this country we have made deliberate efforts to present MMA as martial arts, in the early days posters were lurid and ring girls were half naked but by concensus it's been toned down to help present the sport as a professional one. It's growing here and I think it will stay as it's gathering many fans.

 

[bowser666]

MMA was there in ancient Greece, probably predating any organized form of Kung Fu.

Sport fighting in general is definitely older then any Kung Fu practice, you might even say sport fighting is more "traditional" then stylized patterns that make up the core of kung fu, and kung fu based systems.

MMA in ancient greece ? I have never heard of that before. If you are referring to Wrestling, and punching and kicking etc....... then every martial art is a MMA. When I refer to MMA I am referring to what is stylised today. The BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing blend which is what 95% of MMA fighters have as their MA reportoire. yes I know there are other styles within the sport but the majority apply that formula.


Next thing I bet we will hear is that Cave Men pracitced MMA LOL. I am not gonig to argue about what is first in history, that doesnt matter to me. I was simply pointing out what I am exposed to via the internet and Television concerning MMA. You have to admit that it does not paint the most pleasant picture of the sport to a "outsider" that is insecure in his own training heh. Sorry for the sarcasm, I just found that funny. I never said my CMA was the be all end all, it is what I prefer to train in. That's it , nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to continue making posts to pound on me though. This is fun.......

 

[Tez3]

Andrew is talking about Pankration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

I wouldn't say that 95% of MMAers are BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing at all. Most are TMA based, with Judo in the UK and probably more wrestling in the States. Many are TKD based, some karate, few boxers enter MMA. Boxing requires different stances, hard to change if you're a boxer. MMAers are far more skilful than often given credit for.

The UFC is a promotion, it's not the whole of MMA, it's only one business. do you jusge TKD by what you see in the Olympics? There's plenty here who will tell you thats not the TKD they know, yet you judge MMA by the UFC purely because it's the most well known and American. Do you judge hamburgers by what they sell in McDonalds? Then please don't judge MMA by what you see in the UFC!

 

[bowser666]

Andrew is talking about Pankration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

I wouldn't say that 95% of MMAers are BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing at all. Most are TMA based, with Judo in the UK and probably more wrestling in the States. Many are TKD based, some karate, few boxers enter MMA. Boxing requires different stances, hard to change if you're a boxer. MMAers are far more skilful than often given credit for.

The UFC is a promotion, it's not the whole of MMA, it's only one business. do you jusge TKD by what you see in the Olympics? There's plenty here who will tell you thats not the TKD they know, yet you judge MMA by the UFC purely because it's the most well known and American. Do you judge hamburgers by what they sell in McDonalds? Then please don't judge MMA by what you see in the UFC!

As I am learning more about MMA I am not going to judge by what I see on TV anymore. I can understand that there is more to it than what I see there. I just wonder how MMA sport fighters feel about what kind of image they are being portrayed as. The media is creating a horrid stereotype of a MMA-ist.