dealing with someone much bigger

[Kris]

This a topic of interest to me, even though i'm not to small, I'm about 6'2" but i only about 75 kilos, i'm 16 by the way so yes i'm a lanky bugger , yet i had an interesting situation recently when i was at a party.
A rather jealous ex boyfriend decided to get his mates to have a go at me, they got me in a headlock from behind and it took me an age to struggle out, i just had to talk them down abit then remove myself from the scene for a while and comeback later. I only had one mate with me, and we were both affected by alcoholic water (i swear someone spiked the tap water :uhyeah: ) and given that there was three of the guys, plus plenty in reserve, the three main guys though were about 90kgs i guess and an inch taller than me or more i would only have succeeded in getting my blood all over her carpet.
The thing is i knew i was drunk so really despite what i could attempt i doubt it would have worked. I do Muay Thai by the way. But my question is what would you have done? Except for avoiding the drink in the first place..........

 

[Tony]

This a topic of interest to me, even though i'm not to small, I'm about 6'2" but i only about 75 kilos, i'm 16 by the way so yes i'm a lanky bugger , yet i had an interesting situation recently when i was at a party.
A rather jealous ex boyfriend decided to get his mates to have a go at me, they got me in a headlock from behind and it took me an age to struggle out, i just had to talk them down abit then remove myself from the scene for a while and comeback later. I only had one mate with me, and we were both affected by alcoholic water (i swear someone spiked the tap water :uhyeah: ) and given that there was three of the guys, plus plenty in reserve, the three main guys though were about 90kgs i guess and an inch taller than me or more i would only have succeeded in getting my blood all over her carpet.
The thing is i knew i was drunk so really despite what i could attempt i doubt it would have worked. I do Muay Thai by the way. But my question is what would you have done? Except for avoiding the drink in the first place..........

Theres a number of things you could have done! I've had friends pull a headlock on me before and the most simplest defence I have used is yanking their groin which they don't like, but tough because I'm going to use any means at my disposal to defend myself! Another one would poke your finger in their ribs, pinch the one of their hamstrings ( it might be a wussy thing to do but believe me it works!) and you can also reach up with one of your free hands and push his chin up thus taking him off balance! But if I was you I would keep it simple!
You say you practice Muay Thai so maybe you should know a little bit of grappelling as I know it involves clinching and some throws! But me personally I would probably grab really hard on their b@ll@$ks and let me tell you this has worked because my friend was fooling around and I did that on him and now he doesn't do that to me anymore! I also remember while having a friendly kick around in the park my friends would bundle on top of me! and I managed to figure out ways of escaping. I have used biting to great effect but my instructor tells us never do it on bare skin but through the clothing because of the risk of HIV and other nasty diseases!

 

[moving target]

In a situation where I don't know all the people or think some of the people may be dangerous I don't get drunk even if I drink.

In that situation if you can get to his eyes an eye gouge could work, if you could get to his groin than that ball grab Tony suggested could work, if you can get an ear an ear tear might work and if you can get a finger a submission might work. But it sounds like talking them down was a safer choice. If you were sober and wanted to fight it might be different.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

See the only issue with all of this is the fact that you need to practice. Otherwise, learning something new in the heat of battle isn't the smartest idea. Ask your instructor straight out. My instructor is only 4 years older than me and he's the best instructor in the school aside from his instructor, who beats him down to size. Heck, it doesn't matter what size, strength, mass, or anything a person has, you CAN take them down. Adrenaline and such help, but the best way to prepare for something like that is to of course spar, but also learn the higher up level self defenses and go over them and over them. Just learning the self defenses and mainly making it second nature the the true key to self defense. And yes, I know the honorable code is don't grab a weapon unless the other dude grabs one first, but first off let's say this: We all can't have the same strength.

The most valuable tip of all is this: Speed X Weight = power/strength. I'm not the strongest person out there, and frankly I'm pretty weak in my arms, for a guy at 17. But that's not how I win matches in sparring. It's learning to telegraph and just mentally understanding the concept: YOU WILL GET HIT! Don't expect to be like Jet Li, Bruce Lee, or Chow Yun Fat. You might get lucky and catch the person off guard with a certain technique, but you are more than likely going to get hit. But the best thing about getting hit is the adrenaline. You get hit and then adrenaline helps you to speed up. Don't slow down, keep your speed up and increase and never blind rage attack.

So, just remember, learn to be agile, and speedy and that's the key to winning...also it doesn't help to condition your body and keep working out. LOL...don't expect to be a couch potato and then just get attacked by a room full of ninjas and then rip the cord off your table lamp and use it as a rope dart/ section whip...lol...it ain't gonna happen. Just don't think like you see in the movies or you will get whupped. Think your body size and think vital attacks.

 

[8253]

when sparring in training and you have been underestimated by a larger person, this is the time to strike with your own flurry of strikes. Suprise will be in your favor and quite possibly make your larger opponent think twice about getting that close to you.

 

[Tony]

See the only issue with all of this is the fact that you need to practice. Otherwise, learning something new in the heat of battle isn't the smartest idea. Ask your instructor straight out. My instructor is only 4 years older than me and he's the best instructor in the school aside from his instructor, who beats him down to size. Heck, it doesn't matter what size, strength, mass, or anything a person has, you CAN take them down. Adrenaline and such help, but the best way to prepare for something like that is to of course spar, but also learn the higher up level self defenses and go over them and over them. Just learning the self defenses and mainly making it second nature the the true key to self defense. And yes, I know the honorable code is don't grab a weapon unless the other dude grabs one first, but first off let's say this: We all can't have the same strength.

The most valuable tip of all is this: Speed X Weight = power/strength. I'm not the strongest person out there, and frankly I'm pretty weak in my arms, for a guy at 17. But that's not how I win matches in sparring. It's learning to telegraph and just mentally understanding the concept: YOU WILL GET HIT! Don't expect to be like Jet Li, Bruce Lee, or Chow Yun Fat. You might get lucky and catch the person off guard with a certain technique, but you are more than likely going to get hit. But the best thing about getting hit is the adrenaline. You get hit and then adrenaline helps you to speed up. Don't slow down, keep your speed up and increase and never blind rage attack.

So, just remember, learn to be agile, and speedy and that's the key to winning...also it doesn't help to condition your body and keep working out. LOL...don't expect to be a couch potato and then just get attacked by a room full of ninjas and then rip the cord off your table lamp and use it as a rope dart/ section whip...lol...it ain't gonna happen. Just don't think like you see in the movies or you will get whupped. Think your body size and think vital attacks.

Hi Shaolinwolf

Its interesting you mentioned Adrenaline, because I have found adrenaline to be really handy! It really heightens your senses and it really does improve your performance. Only last night I was doing some semi contact and each time my opponent charged at me trying to strike me i would instinctively duck! I did get hit but that only made me more determined! This was actually the first time in ages I had done any sparring as I don;t usually stay for the sparring but I thought it would help desensitise me to the fear of getting hit!
After the guy I sparred with I had to spar with this girl who has been in tournaments and I have never been in any! Though she is experienced I was holding back on my strikes as I was afraid of hurting her. My instructor made me spar with her and she is good but I guess I have an old fashioned view that a guy should never hit a girl! But I wouldn't want to be seen as discriminating so I just tried to make some contact and evade her kicks which I managed quiet well! So i think I will make this a regular thing now. My instructor was surprised to see me stay behind! But I guess I'm treating this like therapy so I don't know if I would enter any tournaments!
With sparring and tournaments there are rules so there are things I can't do because of the fact I am wearing gloves but with empty hands i could use eye gouges, strikes to the throat, pinching, and grabbing on the groin, anything I could use to get myself out of a sticky situation!

 

[Kris]

This question doesn't really fall under this topic, but it isn't worth making another over, so;

Whats the best approach to take with multiple opponents?

I don't really mean techniques, so much as do you focus on taking just one opponenet at a time and totally putting them on the ground, just try to avoid and/or take the hits from other people, or are you better off trying to take them all at once and avoid becoming over committed.

Cheers

 

[moving target]

Mobility is the biggest factor in multiple opponants. You have to keep moving and you have to try to line them up so they can't all get to you at once. If they don't know what their doing than it isn't as big of a deal, but if they have even the slightest sence of team work than they will either attack you like a wolf pack, have someone distract you head on while a guy circles and tackles you. Or just bum rush you and tie you up (these of course presume you have no weapons. So you have to know where everyone is and you have to be able to move. I really think it would be a poor choice to attempt a ground and pound on a group of people.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

yes, Adrenaline sure helps speedwise and strengthwise and mentally. I like the fact that when facing overwhelming odds, you can be so juiced up and be very, very fast. I love speed, I can't say how much I love it;gives me a rush. No, I don't speed on the road, much, I just accelerate fast.(no I'm not a NASCAR fan...lol) But yeah, adrenaline...yes it's does wonders...wish we could channel it all the time, or learn how to...that'd be cool...

 

[Black Bear]

moving target's correctness quotient is at the 100th percentile.

 

[moving target]

yes, Adrenaline sure helps speedwise and strengthwise and mentally. I like the fact that when facing overwhelming odds, you can be so juiced up and be very, very fast. I love speed, I can't say how much I love it;gives me a rush. No, I don't speed on the road, much, I just accelerate fast.(no I'm not a NASCAR fan...lol) But yeah, adrenaline...yes it's does wonders...wish we could channel it all the time, or learn how to...that'd be cool...

In the context of competition adrenaline helps you, but when you have a massive adrenaline dump, like ina life and death situation (whatever that may be) it can be a detriment because you loose fine motor control.

And you can "channel it". That's a big part of what an athlete might call "getting pumped up".

 

[rompida]

All MA aside, I like to think of this situation in a psychological way. The bigger guy has the advantage on you. In his mind he is superior, and probably in your mind too, or you wouldn't be posting the question. So, how do you put someone on the defensive quickly? ATTACK! I'm not saying find him and challenge him. But rather, if he is approaching you, and through either his actions or words is showing intent - act first. A good punch will stun him, and disrupt his plan and vision of pummelling you as you stand there and take it.
I once had to do this about 11 yrs ago, as a teenager. Someone stole my CD wallet from my car. I drove after him. He finally stopped. I jumped out of my car, thinking I was Mr. Billy Bad-@ss. He came out with a tire iron. When I stupidly held my ground, demanding my CD's, he raised the tire iron. I jawed him, tackled him (tire iron was dropped by this point I think) and had him in a side headlock. He gave up, I got my CD's and left. I now realize how stupid I was, but also see how that punch to the jaw might have kept me from having a nice cleave in my skull.

I've seen smaller guys whip up on some big dudes, and almost every time, it was because they were just plain meaner and more willing to attack first. Act rather than react. Just my meager $.02

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Hit first, hit hard, hit fast, and keep hitting until either you or the other guy are out cold and in pieces.

Also, the best practice for fighting, is fighting. Get in a couple, get your butt kicked, and let the experience liberate you from fear. Yes, you may get hurt, but (generally) the body heals. Only after you have learnt how your body and mind behave in the crucible of personal combat can you actually train for specific response potentials. Until you've been there, it's just academic.

DrDaveDC

Rock on.

 

[cfr]

I forgot I even posted this. Oddly enough, the person I was originally writing about is back in prison. He was still on parole and I guess a couple of people told his PO that he was threatening them. Off he went. artyon:

 

[moving target]

The psychological thing is good advise but you have to change their mind which is not the same as changing your mind. If you don't cause dammage that will make them think twice than you havn't changed their mind. Depending on their resilliance that may be tough. Maybe not though.

 

[7starmantis]

I don't know, I kind of think that changing their minds would take way too long. To do that you would have to hurt them, let them feel it, think about it, and then make a decision to stop attacking. Thats way too much time and puts you in a bad situation. My game plan would be to incapacitate them as quickly as possible, then their size wouldn't matter much. It doesn't matter how big someone is, they still need their knees to stand up. If I'm attacked by anyone, especially someone much bigger than me, I'm going to take them out as quickly and effectivly as possible. Go for a knee, maybe a throat, or an eye, or all of the above. My opinion is to attack quickly and effectivly and do not stop attacking until they are down for good.

No need playing around with an attacker, they may be after your life.

7sm

 

[rompida]

I think I may have been misunderstood. I'm not trying to change their mind, just surprise it with an unexpected stimulus. What I mean is, acting quickly - whether it be taking out knees, punch to the throat... whatever. It stops the person's train of thought long enough for you to be able to finish the job... or get away.

 

[moving target]

They still have to register your attack as seriously dammaging.

Some obviously work like an eye jauge. Some aren't as absolute, like a knee kick.

 

[7starmantis]

I think I need to clarify my point. In my opinion, to create a change of mind in the attacker, or even surprise it with an unexpected stimuli, is the wrong approach. If you hit them with a technique that is serious enough to surprise or change their mind, what would hitting them with 4 or 5 of them before they register the first one do to them? I'm talking of taking control of the situation so that before they even realize or have a chance to change their mind you have applied a series of serious attacks which leaves them unable to continue regardless of what they decide to do in their mind. Before their mind is changed you have taken away their ability to attack you, then it doesn't matter what they chose.

Now, when we are speaking of specific techniques I think its wrong to assume any of them are absolute, even an eye gouge. There are some that are almost completely absolute, say if I put a nice kick into the back of your knee, your going down, you can't physically resist that type of tehcnique, if you try you will probably hurt your knee worse than letting it bend with the kick. Now, is that absolute? What if they yield and turn their knee into your kick thus not going down and making you lose your balance because you were planning on them being under your foot when it hit the pavement. See, to assume absolute changes your action and takes your mind away from moving directly and instinctivly to the next technique in a series of attacks.

JMHO
7sm

 

[moving target]

Well if you are capable of such a devistating assault what threat did the person offer in the first place? I mean I think we would all want to neutralise threat in a fight as quickly as posable.