Cultural and Generational Gaps

[Archtkd]

Are you saying that more or bigger necessarily means better? There're way more McDonalds than Ruth's Chris Steakhouses. Does that mean they're better?

How many TKD schools are really martial arts schools and how many are martial arts style community centers where mom and dad and little billy can go play karate twice a week and laugh and play and hit each other with foam bats?

Does the fact that TKD is a national sport, with state backing, which led to it becoming an olympic sport, with state backing, play any roll at all in its proliferation and spread?

I've repeatedly pointed out that one of the main problems I'm seeing is this idea of appointing people to positions of authority based on nationality or ethnicity instead of skill and experience. Now, I'm asking you, ArchTKD, straight up, do you think that appointing someone to a position of authority over others based on their race is a good idea, or a bad idea?

For what it's worth, in my town there are four kenpo schools, all known for teaching real combat fighting. There are four TKD schools, three known for teaching real fighting, one is a big fancy clubhouse for kids of all ages. To be fair, the last is the most successful and most popular of all eight of those schools. It's got big tv's hanging from the ceiling and a whole wall of wavemaster bags. And when I was in that school I heard the instructor tell the students to "get out their clubs and practice their club work." And then I watched six year olds and forty year olds get out big foam blockers and chase each other around the room bonking each other on the head and blocking "club strikes" with their arms. Maybe that's TKD club work, and in all fairness I was only there for the one part so it's completely out of context, but that's not any kind of "club work" I'd want my students doing. Now, there are bad kenpo schools too, but I stand up and say, "that's bad kenpo."

Do you stand up and say "that's bad TKD?

The stats in your town are interesting. Four Kenpo schools to four Taekwondo schools is a good mix. I doubt that's a typical scenario in many major suburban areas. The scale I was talking about relates to problems. The more participants you have the higher the likelihood of infighting, politics, etc.

Of course I don't think appointments at organizational leadership levels shouldn't be based on race. Sweeping changes to a national organizations's leadership structure and leadership also shouldn't be driven my carte blanche racial motive, particularly if folks getting kicked out are American citizens.

On as side note I've noticed the more "American" some Taekwondo schools try to become, the more folks begin calling them McDojangs. How do you win?

 

[Thesemindz]

The stats in your town are interesting. Four Kenpo schools to four Taekwondo schools is a good mix. I doubt that's a typical scenario in many major suburban areas. The scale I was talking about relates to problems. The more participants you have the higher the likelihood of infighting, politics, etc.

Of course I don't think appointments at organizational leadership levels shouldn't be based on race. Sweeping changes to a national organizations's leadership structure and leadership also shouldn't be driven my carte blanche racial motive, particularly if folks getting kicked out are American citizens.

On as side note I've noticed the more "American" some Taekwondo schools try to become, the more folks begin calling them McDojangs. How do you win?

I see your point about scale. In that sense, you're right. More students, more schools, more instructors, more organizations. Sure. More problems.

Personally, I've never cared what color or nationality my instructors were. Most of them have been white Americans, but I don't really care. I care about what they teach. I care about how they teach. Nothing else is really important. For instance, I'm an anarchist. The difference between Anarchism and Statism is far more important to me than the difference between White and Black, or American and Korean. For me, anarchism is a defining aspect of my life and philosophy, and statism is the most disgusting evil ever perpetrated against mankind. Despite that, I've trained law enforcement officers, and soldiers, and government employees. Because there is no place for my personal beliefs in the dojo. The "way place" is only a place for the Way. Race, gender, religion, politics, beliefs, sexual preference, none of those things belong in the karate school. Just karate.

As to your last part, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "becoming American." First, I'm not advocating that TKD schools "become American." I'm advocating that they leave culture and nationality out of it and stick to teaching TKD. Secondly, I think schools are considered "McDojo/McDojang" when they,

1. Teach children and adults at the same time in the same classes.
2. De-emphasize contact training.
3. Give out belts with little or no testing requirements.
4. Allow students to skip ranks.
5. Charge hundreds of dollars in testing fees/required training equipment that is rarely or never used.
6. Require additional fees for membership in organizations which give little or no benefit to the members.
7. Give out black belt ranks in less than three years.

Now, I recognize that there are legitimate schools that may engage in some of those practices. Different schools give out rank at different paces, different students train at different paces. Some styles don't emphasize contact training, that doesn't necessarily make them "McDojo/McDojang." But if a school does three of four of those, or more, than I think you are probably looking at one. I don't see that as the "Americanization" of martial arts schools. I see it as commercialization. And it isn't anything new.

When you look at the world, the various arts have been tailored to be items for sale. Likewise, a person thinks of himself as something to be sold and even the implements of these Ways are proffered as merchandise. This mentality divides the flower and fruit into two, and makes much less of the fruit than the flower. In this Way of the Martial Arts, especially, form is made into ornament, the flower is forced into bloom and technique is made into display: one talks of this or that dojo, teaching this Way or that Way, in an attempt to gain some benefit. Someone has said that "the immature martial art is a source of great injury," and this is certainly the truth.

Miyamoto Musashi
Book of Five Rings
Book of Earth
roughly 1645


-Rob

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Personally, I tend to identify with and relate better to the pioneers who created Taekwondo. I do not believe that they are perfect people; however, I do think that they did manage to create something that is pretty awesome, in spite of whatever flaws people think they had.

It cannot be denied that these individuals have developed an art that has had perhaps the farthest reaching impact of any martial art in history. There is obviously something that attracts people to the art, whatever their personal interest may be.

I also empathize with American borns (being one myself) and their struggles to find their own way. What I do not relate to is the disrespect shown to our seniors for misunderstandings and misinformation that continues to be spread even today.

Could you expound on this please? More specifically, what were the initial misunderstandings and misinformation? Was there a basis for anything at all? Were they blown out of proportion or are they completly fabricated? Are they any factual things that would legitimately give a 'black eye' to the art? In what way have things been disrespectful towards the seniors or those under them and if indeed it is towards something legitimate, what would have been a better approach?

A lot of questions, but it helps to understand other perspectives. Thank you.