Cross-Training in Kuk Sool Won and Tae Kwondo

Discussion in 'Korean Martial Arts - General' started by Jedmus, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    I've been training in ITF Tae Kwondo for a while and will be grading for my blue belt this week. I was just wondering what opinions are of training in both Tae Kwondo and Kuk Sool Won as I have found a very good school in my area for this.
     
  2. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I have never studied Kuk Sool Wojn, but I think it to share similarities of the Hapkido I studied. That is, it has a predominance of grappling techniques. I personally think an art like TKD and KSW would complement each other. If you find that not so, you would have to stay with the one you prefer.

    If you choose to do so, let us know how it goes, and if you think they compliment each other or interfere with each other.
     
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  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I stumbled across some of their organizational information online, not long ago. Their rule books and such were available for perusal. What I got from reading that is that they forbid their students from cross training. You have to agree to train nothing but Kuk sool, or they don't accept you as a student. Their rules even state that you cannot train other stuff in private, if memory serves.

    Perhaps some teachers are more lenient about it and don't try to enforce what seems to me to be unenforceable without seriously invading someone's privacy. But if they find out you still train or practice something else, they can choose to reject you as a student. It's in the bylaws.
     
  4. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    Thanks for your help, I'll go along to the classes on monday and let you know what I think but hopefully you're right and it will help to complement my Tae Kwondo

    Is this Kuk Sool or Kuk Sool Won? I haven't heard of that before and like you said, I don't see a way that they can forbid students from training in other Martial Arts
     
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It was kuk sool won, if there is a difference I guess I don't know it. It's the one headed and controlled by the Suh family.

    They can't control what you do in your life, but they can refuse to teach you if you are doing something they don't like. Instructor certification is highly controlled and they can insist that instructors follow their rules, or be likewise kicked out. It is a business, whether or not the training is any good.
     
  6. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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  7. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Senior Master

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    GM Seo, In Sun (GM Suh, In Hyuk's brother) studied with the founder of Hapkido, GM Choi, Yong Sul so that wouldn't be totally surprising, IMHO.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Do that thing you want to do.
     
  9. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the information everyone :) it looks like some classes are more strict than others with this. I'm going to ask today when I go for my trial there and see what he says. If not I may look around for Hapkido as I definitely want to train in something else to complement my Tae Kwondo
     
  10. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    Went to the Kuk Sool Won classes tonight and they said that when my training hits a certain point I would likely be asked to choose. Really liked the system but if it means not training in any other martial arts I'd rather not limit myself by joining Kuk Sool Won :(
     
  11. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Did they say what that point was? In Korea, it wasn't uncommon that when a student in an art reached 3rd Dan, they would be encouraged to pick another art and earn a 1st Dan. Then decide if they wanted to stay with the new art, or return to the first art.

    But if they are going to say you must choose at some point in the colored belt levels, I would ask why. Of course, if you choose to study there, when you reach that level, you may understand why and decide on your own. I thought my limited prior study of TKD was a help when I began studying Hapkido, but I had no desire to again take up TKD.
     
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  12. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    All that they said was that they may find themselves having to re-teach certain things and that it may hinder my progress but I have messaged them to see if they will make an exception as I have cross trained previously in Aikido while going Tae Kwondo and found it didn't hinder my progress in any way. They are quite a new school (only opened a year ago) so it may be that they haven't had any experience with this before.

    I was looking into Hapkido or Kuk Sool One but unfortunately there are no Hapkido schools in my area
     
  13. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Well, as I said, I have never studied Kook Sul Won, and only seen it demonstrated a couple of times. But I didn't find anything I had to relearn from TKD to Hapkido. I would think that could only happen if in the TKD you are studying, you learned a technique that is done differently from the Kook Sul Won you will study. That shouldn't be difficult. There can't be that many you will learn in TKD, and you will simply tell yourself to learn a new technique, similar to one you already know. That probably will happen a few times in Kook Sul Won anyway. But I wouldn't ask them to make exceptions. Either do things their way or don't study there.

    That is my opinion only and isn't binding on your Kook Sul Won school.
     
  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    The link I posted, suggests to me that this is at black belt level.

    Depends on your situation. You could just practice your TKD privately and not let them know. That probably means practice alone, not with another school or training partners, or eventually you will be seen.

    It's up to you. I understand the idea that you should focus on one method, and it is up to the teacher to decide if he is willing to teach you. But writing it into the bylaws seems a bit draconian.
     
  15. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I wouldn't bother. Kuk Sool Won does not chamber their kicks, TKD does. There's also a lack of emphasis on what is called kime in Japanese karate (something that TKD also has, more or less) and that will be a pain for you when practicing the KSW forms.

    The overlap within both arts is considerable. I'd suggest you take up something like aikido instead if you want to cross train and continue to train ITF TKD. Better yet, stay with the TKD exclusively until you reach a relatively expert level. Blue belt is kinda early to start thinking about seeking out other MA experiences.
     
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  16. Jedmus

    Jedmus Orange Belt

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    I have been in conversation with the Kuk Sool Won school and he has decided that, as long as I do not bring my TKD training into my Kuk Sool Won classes and vice versa, I can train with him as normal.

    All he did was message my instructor in TKD to let her know personally as a sign of respect :)
     
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  17. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    In your link, they are not only prohibited from practicing another art, they are not allowed to discuss other art's techniques, and they are required to report other students who practice another art.

    I could see reluctance in allowing study of another grappling art, out of fear it might confuse the student, or that the student might give false impressions, but that seems unlikely to me. But it is their art and school.

    I would be reluctant to lie to my school's instructors and other students.
     
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  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I agree. entering into the school with a deception from the get-to is likely to end badly.
     
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  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You just don't train in schools that do that.

    It screams of cult. And the benefits just dont reflect the cost.
     
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  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I agree. Especially the bit about other students having an obligation to tattle. No thanks.
     
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