Criticisms of Karate

[angrywhitepajamas]

Ah but the rest of us knowand can remain confident in our training. Knowing that most people will consider us as cheap and mass produced only gives us the element of surprise. What a better cover is there from those who would harm us? That s no consolation to those who are being cheated on their training, but there is only so much any of us could do.

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

and It does make me frustrated that we all have that cover available.

 

[lucifersdad]

i know this topic has been covered but im new.

you said that in some styles there is a vertical fist, in others horizontal etc. etc.....
what about the styles that incorperate all of these? wado ryu uses all of these strikes in various kata, and as for the theory of increased effectiveness, doesnt that lie with the overall technique rather than the type of fist used? after practising karate for a while and going through the repatative routines cant we all hit these wonderful little kyusho points with most strikes 9 times out of ten, or there abouts?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by lucifersdad
after practising karate for a while and going through the repatative routines cant we all hit these wonderful little kyusho points with most strikes 9 times out of ten, or there abouts?

Not really.
I have seen folks on mpegs, and at live demos claim they are hitting "kyusho" points and even go so far as to draw little dots to mark them but in reality they are not hitting kyusho points.
There are also those on this board and others that claim to know what Kyusho is and are absolutely clueless.
Perhaps they are only repeating what they were told so it is a case of the blind leading the blind over several years.
I have also met several famous Japanese Karate from the JKA, Wado, Shotokan, and the JKF that were clueless to what Kyusho is.

 

[lucifersdad]

i agree many karate-ka have'nt got a clue what or where kyusho's are or how to strike them effectivly but my school, as with most i know, teach kyusho attacks as part of the grading syllabus and as a "fall guy" in most dan gradings, i know that most students cant hit them, but if we are to stop this blind leading the blind shouldnt we test things like this and learn from our mistakes rather than saying " i can't do it, so i wont teach it!"

i tried the three fist positions out last night, myself and one of my students spent about an hour punching and kicking each other, and although they all hurt (alot!), i think the fist positioning does have varying effectivness depending on which kyusho you hit, from what angle, and with what strike, but there deffinatley is some differance!
thank you for showing me these options for attack im starting to look at it alot more and from many differant angles ) sorry)

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by lucifersdad
i agree many karate-ka have'nt got a clue what or where kyusho's are or how to strike them effectivly but my school, as with most i know, teach kyusho attacks as part of the grading syllabus

From what it sounds like the “kyusho” you are talking about are actually not kyusho but rather atemi points.(big difference that I will not explain)

Originally posted by lucifersdad
but if we are to stop this blind leading the blind shouldnt we test things like this and learn from our mistakes rather than saying " i can't do it, so i wont teach it!"

I never teach things I do not understand or can not do. What you are suggesting is actually perpetuating the blind leading the blind.
Research and practice it as much as you can but don’t teach it until you have a good grasp of it.

Originally posted by lucifersdad
i tried the three fist positions out last night, myself and one of my students spent about an hour punching and kicking each other, and although they all hurt (alot!), i think the fist positioning does have varying effectivness depending on which kyusho you hit, from what angle, and with what strike, but there deffinatley is some differance!
thank you for showing me these options for attack im starting to look at it alot more and from many differant angles ) sorry)

Body position and body mechanics make the technique work.
This is my main gripe about some of the so called “Kyusho People”.
They stand stiff as a lamp post therefore the technique is not very effective….if at all.
Boxers move in and out of position……..and for a good reason.

 

[platinum_angel]

*yawns*

hmm let me start out by saying i have taken a year and a half of goju-ryu karate. well during my training i would always ask my self are these techniques really useful. for instance striking with the back of your wrist. in a fight would you really risk breaking your wrist when you could just use your palm. or horse stance if igot into a fight wouldn't he just be able to push me over or just tackle me. but i continued with my training. my instructors were alright i wasn't in a mcdojo even though they never demontrated their fighting ability. but my instructors had the intentions of meking it a mcdojo. so they moved from the school they were training at into to a city. i got a letter in the mail telling me if i wanted to continue my training i would have to pay like a 1000 bucks a year. previously i was bragging about how good of a fighter i was at school. so it ended up me getting into fights with wrestlers and they kicked my ***. from then on i knew that there was something wrong karate really didn't teach me how to fight. but i kept my head up high and started reading books on jeet kune do and researching other arts. still am. but what i relized was that karate isn't that effective.

karate gives their students a false sense of security. there fighting techniques are not practical in a real fighting situation. why do you think they use point systems during sparring. not only that but their training methods such kata are not good means of training. some people say ohhh well its just like shadow boxing - their not the same they are completly different.

now i'm not trying to troll i am just trying to wake you people up.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
*yawns*

hmm let me start out by saying i have taken a year and a half of goju-ryu karate.

WOW! A whole year and a half…….you must be an “expert” then…….

Originally posted by platinum_angel
now i'm not trying to troll ..........

Yes you are.

 

[chufeng]

Platinum Angel,

Too bad you had such poor instruction.
Clearly your teachers knew nothing about how to apply goose head strike, nor the proper use of horse stance...or, *yawn* you were too bored to pay attention.

It's about distance and position...angle of attack and knowing a little about where to strike.

The opinion of a 1.5 year veteran of a poor course of instruction is hardly something I'd use to back up any claim that karate is not useful...

Real karate is devastating stuff...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Robbo]

but their training methods such kata are not good means of training

You are completely ignorant of what forms teach and what their purpose is. To say something like this is so brutally off base that it's hard to know where to start to 'educate' you on what the hell you are talking about.

Rob

Not trying to piss you off just trying to wake YOU up

 

[Robbo]

i tried the three fist positions out last night, myself and one of my students spent about an hour punching and kicking each other, and although they all hurt (alot!), i think the fist positioning does have varying effectivness depending on which kyusho you hit, from what angle, and with what strike, but there deffinatley is some differance!

Make sure that you tie in the amount of rotation of the fist to the distance you are away from your target.

0 - 1/3 - supinated wrist (uppercut)
1/3 - 3/4 - vertical fist
3/4 - 1 - horizontal fist
>1 - pronated fist (turned over)

Rob

 

[2fisted]

One thing also to think of, is that criticizing 'Karate' as a whole is also ignorant. There are so many different styles, schools, lineages, variances, etc., that making a blanket statement is basically impossible.

The same can be said of Kung Fu. The term is so broad that it is impossible to make all-encompassing remarks.

Just my $.02

 

[platinum_angel]

*opens eyes*

WOW! A whole year and a half…….you must be an “expert” then…….

a year and a half is enough time to see what karate is about:shrug:

Yes you are

great arguement

Too bad you had such poor instruction. Clearly your teachers knew nothing about how to apply goose head strike, nor the proper use of horse stance...or, *yawn* you were too bored to pay attention.

my instructors gave me great instruction and they knew their techniques very well. as for me i was one of their most determined students i walked there 2 miles every other day. then still worked out my hardest.

It's about distance and position...angle of attack and knowing a little about where to strike

as for kata form, in a proverbial situation form dissappears and survival reappears.

You are completely ignorant of what forms teach and what their purpose is. To say something like this is so brutally off base that it's hard to know where to start to 'educate' you on what the hell you are talking about.

really.......... i am quite confident iin my knowledge. so please do educate me.:shrug:

One thing also to think of, is that criticizing 'Karate' as a whole is also ignorant. There are so many different styles, schools, lineages, variances, etc., that making a blanket statement is basically impossible

if i remember correctly you guys were talking about how all karate stems from okinawan. so therefore making a blanket statment is possible.

 

[Dan Anderson]

My two cents worth after being in the art for 36+ years. A year and a half's experience is like judging the restaurant by looking at the menu and smelling from outside.

I like the 3/4 fist over the flat fist and the "standing fist." I use the feedback from my body in response to striking something with resistance. Does my wrist buckle or not? Which feels the strongest? That's what I go by.

According to the pressure point guys and historical documents cited previously, the Pinan kata were for youngsters.

As to why karate gets a bad rep, it's according to who is doing the dissing. Taekwondo, gung fu and everything else under the sun will get a bad rap from someone. The keys are are you getting what you need and want from what you train and will it protect you in a fight? Over and out.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
*opens eyes*


a year and a half is enough time to see what karate is about:shrug:



great arguement



my instructors gave me great instruction and they knew their techniques very well. as for me i was one of their most determined students i walked there 2 miles every other day. then still worked out my hardest.



as for kata form, in a proverbial situation form dissappears and survival reappears.



really.......... i am quite confident iin my knowledge. so please do educate me.:shrug:



if i remember correctly you guys were talking about how all karate stems from okinawan. so therefore making a blanket statment is possible.

If I were you, I would have quit while I was ahead, you know, somewhere about,

*yawns*

Your arguements are nonsensical at best, and at the very least pathetic.
Why don't you go somewhere that accepts wannabe's into their ranks. If you stay here too long people WILL start to treat you with the respect you deserve.

--Dave
:shrug:

 

[chufeng]

Dave,

The youngun' has never experienced the "Capitol Hill ***** Slap," so it isn't fair to expect him to understand...

chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

A year and a half is about enough time to learn how to properly tie your belt.

 

[chufeng]

Platinum Angel,

as for kata form, in a proverbial situation form dissappears and survival reappears.

What the hell does that mean???

If survival reappears, you do what you have to to survive...IF (big IF) you've been trained correctly you stand a better (51/49) chance at surviving...the more training you have the better your chances at survival...

If you found your karate teacher lacking (No, he gave the best instruction??? Who are you to judge what's good and bad? with 1.5 years training?) then you did the right thing to leave...but I guarantee that if you had found a REAL school of karate, WE would not be having this internet discussion.

And, unless you change the way you present yourslf here, I probably WON'T be responding to your posts in the future.

I won't waste my time on someone who thinks he has the answers before he knows what the hell the question is.

chufeng

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by chufeng
Dave,

The youngun' has never experienced the "Capitol Hill ***** Slap," so it isn't fair to expect him to understand...

chufeng

What exactly is the "Capitol Hill ***** Slap," ?
Aint geography a *****!?
--Dave

 

[chufeng]

It is an internal strike that uses a very loose and relaxed hand and wrist...when applied, it appears to be the slap of someone who is, shall we say, effeminate...BUT it hits with tremendous force...
We nick-named it the Capitol Hill ***** Slap because there is a very large percentage of overtly gay folk in the Capitol Hill area of Seattle...

chufeng