CONTROVERSY: Free Martial Arts!!!

[Shadowstar MMA]

Shadowstar is a mixed martial art. For those of you who can look past the wiki definition of “MMA”, I mean exactly what the name says. It’s a mixed martial art. Not one style is taught in my school. I don’t teach an ancient fighting system laid down in stone by my predecessors. I teach a martial art that is practical and made up of many different types of fighting. Judo. Kung Fu. Karate. Kickboxing. San Soo. The list goes on and on.

How many martial arts competitions are in the Olympics? There’s more than one, right? Then why is it that these martial arts are not called “Olympic”?
The comment was made that I was putting “MMA” in the name of the school to get people in the door. That would make perfect sense, if I charged for classes.

I was hoping to find a site that I could converse with other martial artists and owner/instructors.
Instead I found myself badgered and ridiculed for the attempt. The only logical explanation I have for this is that the thought of Shadowstar MMA scares people. I’m not sure why, we’re not out to attack anyone. Not even in the ring. However, Shadowstar is something a lot of people don’t understand, and that’s ok. It’s ok not to understand. I’ve been teaching since 1992, been under martial arts instruction since 1984, and I still don’t understand.
One of our mottos is “How long does it take?” (this is a question that every instructor has tried to answer, pertaining to how long it takes to learn something.)
The answer is One. One lifetime.

My backgrounds, my school, what I name my school, even the age of my students were attacked. In one thread it was insinuated that I was suspect of being a child molester.
This angers me greatly. Even though every parent, teacher, and student should be aware of these things, to come out and all but accuse someone of this for no more reason than the fact that I don’t charge for classes is absurd and very insulting.

For those of you who are true martial artists: Keep up the good work. I hope to cross paths with you and we can share and learn from each other. Always remember that martial arts is not a system of fighting. It’s a way of life.

To answer one final question, “Why not just teach Kung Fu San Soo?

Or any of the other styles for free for that matter and not use the MMA label?”

I don’t teach what I was taught for a couple of reasons. Teaching of one particular style limits what is taught through tradition, curriculum, and rules. (example: a tournament martial arts is not going to teach grabbing the groin or thumbing an eye.)

Simply put, I disagree with some of the rules.

To finish up, I mean no disrespect to anyone that has shown me and my school welcome. I very much enjoyed reading (some) of your posts and answering your questions. Thank you.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Quoting this post again due to the fact that after reading a post from another user, a few questions came to mind. Its always nice to read other views, because sometimes it sparks a few things I hadn't thought about. Maybe I'm just reading wrong, and forgive me for doing so, but you said:

"It's my opinion that MA instructors, unless teaching for an organization, should give thier knowledge, not sell it."

So, if you're teaching for an org, its ok to charge, but if you're teaching out of a small school or your garage, then its not ok?

What is it exactly that you're against? The Mcdojos, that care more about the money than the quality of students? If thats the case, then yes, I agree with you on that.

yes, i am disagreeing with the "mcdojo's".

 

[Tez3]

yes, i am disagreeing with the "mcdojo's".

You won't find anyone on here who supports them.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Outragious is subjective. Quality of the art, effectiveness of the art, quality and effectiveness of the teacher, and many other factors come into play when it comes to costs attached. Who are you to tell anyone else what they should charge?
The only problem I have with commercial schools, is not the money, but the honesty. I have no problem with schools of varying types as long as they are honest with the students, I despise dishonesty in the commercial martial arts world, and that really has nothing to do with the costs, it has much more to do with the quality of the art, and the reality of the teachers abilities, students abilities, and the arts answers to problems.

I'm not telling anyone how to run thier school or what to charge. I'm disagreeing with two things in this topic.
1) people telling me that I need to charge.
2) McDojos. (A term I didn't know before coming to Martial Talk.)

 

[Flying Crane]

Hi George,

It's not that the Wiki definition is god's word or something. Rather, it's really the most commonly understood meaning of the term.

You can call your system whatever you want to call it, and nobody can stop you as long as you don't violate any copyrights. It's just a suggestion that you might find your discussions here more meaningful, and people might give your contributions more gravity if you are on the same page as everyone else as far as terminology and whatnot. When people are speaking the same language, they communicate more effectively.

I would hope that nobody would accuse you of being a child molester based only on the fact that you have a number of students who are children. Based on that alone, many people here would suffer the same accusation. So someone making such an accusation is out of line.

Hopefully your contributions to the forum here will be a benefit to the community.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

I like Tez's take on MMA for the most part.
I do have to say that I completely disagree that MMA as a term should be used solely to describe sports martial arts..
I completely believe that its as worded... simply mixed martial arts, and that there can be an academic, sports, or combat model based off it.
It simply needs to incorporate multiple ranges, and martial arts involved with said ranges to create a mixed martial art.
That being said, one has to be honest about what they teach, and needs to be up front about teaching one version or another, and not try to get involved with something theyre not qualified for. I think in this case Shadowstar makes it apparant that they have nothing to do with the sports side of MMA.

none what so ever, and thank you.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Who'd you get your CLF from?

I studied "CLF" in Phoenix, AZ.
As far as forms go, I am a firm believer in them. The benefits from them suit my school for many reasons, such as only meeting once a week, and instilling proper mnemonics. Not only that, like some of my students, I'm overweight and it gives me a chance to exercise. . . .

 

[Joab]

Of course you don't have to charge. Quite frankly I don't think anybody in this thread is saying you have to charge, perhaps your referring to people in your area.

 

[clfsean]

I studied "CLF" in Phoenix, AZ.
As far as forms go, I am a firm believer in them. The benefits from them suit my school for many reasons, such as only meeting once a week, and instilling proper mnemonics. Not only that, like some of my students, I'm overweight and it gives me a chance to exercise. . . .

Oh ok... who's in Phoenix? I've not heard of anybody there...

What family did they teach?

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Exactly!!
If people in this country went to a club advertising MMA and found it was what is described on the website, they'd be off to Trading Standards as misleading advertising lol!
I agree not everyone who does MMA competes, I don't, I ref instead being too old to compete but whether people compete or not the MMA they train the same as those who do compete.
What is described on the website is not MMA, it is a mixture of the styles you have described.
if people go to a TKD club they expect to train TKD, the same as BJJ, Judo etc they don't expect to train something different which is what you are advertising by calling it MMA. I think you'll do yourself a dis-service too, many people who could be training with you won't because they will think it's an MMA club by the title and not even look at your website.

No student trains with me that doesn't fully understand this. I make it very clear that Shadowstar is not a "MMA" like they see on tv or in many recent movies.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Hi George,

It's not that the Wiki definition is god's word or something. Rather, it's really the most commonly understood meaning of the term.

You can call your system whatever you want to call it, and nobody can stop you as long as you don't violate any copyrights. It's just a suggestion that you might find your discussions here more meaningful, and people might give your contributions more gravity if you are on the same page as everyone else as far as terminology and whatnot. When people are speaking the same language, they communicate more effectively.

I would hope that nobody would accuse you of being a child molester based only on the fact that you have a number of students who are children. Based on that alone, many people here would suffer the same accusation. So someone making such an accusation is out of line.

Hopefully your contributions to the forum here will be a benefit to the community.

I hope so as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Shadowstar is a mixed martial art. For those of you who can look past the wiki definition of “MMA”, I mean exactly what the name says. It’s a mixed martial art. Not one style is taught in my school. I don’t teach an ancient fighting system laid down in stone by my predecessors. I teach a martial art that is practical and made up of many different types of fighting. Judo. Kung Fu. Karate. Kickboxing. San Soo. The list goes on and on.

How many martial arts competitions are in the Olympics? There’s more than one, right? Then why is it that these martial arts are not called “Olympic”?
The comment was made that I was putting “MMA” in the name of the school to get people in the door. That would make perfect sense, if I charged for classes.

I was hoping to find a site that I could converse with other martial artists and owner/instructors.
Instead I found myself badgered and ridiculed for the attempt. The only logical explanation I have for this is that the thought of Shadowstar MMA scares people. I’m not sure why, we’re not out to attack anyone. Not even in the ring. However, Shadowstar is something a lot of people don’t understand, and that’s ok. It’s ok not to understand. I’ve been teaching since 1992, been under martial arts instruction since 1984, and I still don’t understand.
One of our mottos is “How long does it take?” (this is a question that every instructor has tried to answer, pertaining to how long it takes to learn something.)
The answer is One. One lifetime.

My backgrounds, my school, what I name my school, even the age of my students were attacked. In one thread it was insinuated that I was suspect of being a child molester.
This angers me greatly. Even though every parent, teacher, and student should be aware of these things, to come out and all but accuse someone of this for no more reason than the fact that I don’t charge for classes is absurd and very insulting.

For those of you who are true martial artists: Keep up the good work. I hope to cross paths with you and we can share and learn from each other. Always remember that martial arts is not a system of fighting. It’s a way of life.

To answer one final question, “Why not just teach Kung Fu San Soo?

Or any of the other styles for free for that matter and not use the MMA label?”

I don’t teach what I was taught for a couple of reasons. Teaching of one particular style limits what is taught through tradition, curriculum, and rules. (example: a tournament martial arts is not going to teach grabbing the groin or thumbing an eye.)

Simply put, I disagree with some of the rules.

To finish up, I mean no disrespect to anyone that has shown me and my school welcome. I very much enjoyed reading (some) of your posts and answering your questions. Thank you.

OK now I am a bit confused

As far as I can tell, CLF and San Soo has no rules but then I don't train San Soo or CLF. AS far as the MMA label, whatever floats your boat, I was just curious.

And from what I have seen in this thread no one was attacking you just asking questions.

As for the rest of your post, and the Child molester accusation bits what the heck are you talking about? On MT if you were attacked or upset by a thread you can report that to the moderator.

As I said I have no problem with anyone teaching for free or for charge if they are qualified and teaching what is real and to refer to another thread you have going on MT, to be honest I see no controversy here at all.

But in my back ground I have Jujitsu and TKD I personally would not combine them and call them MMA or anything else and then teach them and I would not teach them by name because I am not qualified to call myself a Jujitsu Sensei or a TKD teacher. I don't have the rank or permission to do it. I was just curious about how you came about teaching MMA for free and what your background was and I am truly still curious as to where the Black/Purple Sash comes from and what does that mean exactly. I have no rank, I am traditional CMA and there is no rank in what I do so I have no idea what most ranks mean today. The last time I trained a style with belt ranks was over 20 years ago

I also know a guy that has an MMA school and within that school he has 2 other schools not MMA. He has one hell of a background to back it all up and he is one heck of nice guy. But he keeps his MMA class separate from his MA classes. His MMA guys compete and his MA do not but to be honest he has mixed BJJ, Muay Thai, Shoot fighting and Kempo for his MA class. And yes that technically could be called Mixed Martial Arts and if he called it that I have no problem with it much like I reall have no problem with you calling what you teach MMA

And to reference your Olympic MA thing they are called Olympic by many. Olympic TKD and then there is Judo that is Olympic rules. There are other versions.

 

[clfsean]

I would hope that nobody would accuse you of being a child molester based only on the fact that you have a number of students who are children. Based on that alone, many people here would suffer the same accusation.

Most of who I teach are kids at my classes or the ones I teach at another school. Plus my own stepdaughters... doesn't look good for the kid here...

So someone making such an accusation is out of line.

Quite out of line.

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Oh ok... who's in Phoenix? I've not heard of anybody there...

What family did they teach?

I studied with Mr. Schaeffer. I don't know who his instructor was.

Not to change the subject or anything, but my "belt" just changed from white to yellow. . . explain please?

 

[clfsean]

I studied with Mr. Schaeffer. I don't know who his instructor was.

Hmmm... what family? You should've at least been told that. What's some of the sets you learned?

Not to change the subject or anything, but my "belt" just changed from white to yellow. . . explain please?

## of posts

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

OK now I am a bit confused

As far as I can tell, CLF and San Soo has no rules but then I don't train San Soo or CLF. AS far as the MMA label, whatever floats your boat, I was just curious.

And from what I have seen in this thread no one was attacking you just asking questions.

As for the rest of your post, and the Child molester accusation bits what the heck are you talking about? On MT if you were attacked or upset by a thread you can report that to the moderator.

As I said I have no problem with anyone teaching for free or for charge if they are qualified and teaching what is real and to refer to another thread you have going on MT, to be honest I see no controversy here at all.

But in my back ground I have Jujitsu and TKD I personally would not combine them and call them MMA or anything else and then teach them and I would not teach them by name because I am not qualified to call myself a Jujitsu Sensei or a TKD teacher. I don't have the rank or permission to do it. I was just curious about how you came about teaching MMA for free and what your background was and I am truly still curious as to where the Black/Purple Sash comes from and what does that mean exactly. I have no rank, I am traditional CMA and there is no rank in what I do so I have no idea what most ranks mean today. The last time I trained a style with belt ranks was over 20 years ago

I also know a guy that has an MMA school and within that school he has 2 other schools not MMA. He has one hell of a background to back it all up and he is one heck of nice guy. But he keeps his MMA class separate from his MA classes. His MMA guys compete and his MA do not but to be honest he has mixed BJJ, Muay Thai, Shoot fighting and Kempo for his MA class. And yes that technically could be called Mixed Martial Arts and if he called it that I have no problem with it much like I reall have no problem with you calling what you teach MMA

And to reference your Olympic MA thing they are called Olympic by many. Olympic TKD and then there is Judo that is Olympic rules. There are other versions.

my point exactly. There are olympicmartial arts, and non-olympic.
In Shadowstar's case, there's competitive MMA and there's mixed martial arts.

As far as my background, I listed 3 schools earlier. I am also a former U.S.M.C. police officer. Most, if not all of what I teach is for the street.

As far as the Black/Purple sash in concerned: A black sash means that the student has under gone training and has become proficient in the Basic 8's. The site still needs more work, so not everything has a pic. Once a student has become a black sash, he/she helps teach as well as has the option to further thier training in more traditional methods. In Shadowstar we call the "Animal training". I have completed the Animal training.
And just to answer another question that may be posted by someone. . .
I developed Shadowstar, the 8-point system it uses, and the rank structure. This was done not only by me, but by my students as well. (Of course not the children. That would be like asking Barney to teach driving,)

 

[Shadowstar MMA]

Hmmm... what family? You should've at least been told that. What's some of the sets you learned?



## of posts

I'm sorry. I don't remember being told. It was quite informal, (in his yard.)

 

[clfsean]

I'm sorry. I don't remember being told. It was quite informal, (in his yard.)

Ah ok... have you included any CLF in your system? Seed hands? Weapons? Jongs?

 

[MJS]

yes, i am disagreeing with the "mcdojo's".

And the rest of my question to you??

 

[MJS]

I'm not telling anyone how to run thier school or what to charge. I'm disagreeing with two things in this topic.
1) people telling me that I need to charge.
2) McDojos. (A term I didn't know before coming to Martial Talk.)

1) Dude, personally, I really don't care if you charge or if you dont charge. I, as well as a few others, are simply saying that just because someone charges, does not make them any less of a teacher. That is the impression that I am getting from you.

2) Ok.