Brother John
Senior Master
Well.... OK....
If the guy is 7' tall, over 300lbs and wearing thick leather clothing...
hop on his back and strangle him...
THAT would take some "wearing the guy down".
Your Brother
John
Well.... OK....
If the guy is 7' tall, over 300lbs and wearing thick leather clothing...
hop on his back and strangle him...
THAT would take some "wearing the guy down".
Your Brother
John
OP
meni
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #42
excuses,excuses,excuses
some time when i see picture of some of the sinior members
the only thing that come to my mind is : they dont need kenpo that just hac e to seat on you to !
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #43
This probably should be a thread of it's own, but here we go. I can jump roundhouse to a 6' tall persons head, WTF TKD Full-contact spar for 2min 4 times before exhaustion sets in then can recover in about two minutes, run 3 miles at an average of 11 min/mile, ride 50 miles non-stop on a bike, squat 750 lbs. once, and make BB piss their pants with my punches and kick. Guess my size? I find it funny that small people are the first to make judgement about large people, but I like that because the second they make that judgement; their mine!
Mountain Sage
Mountain Sage
Well, for those of us that dont know you, please tell us a little about yourself, seeing that you are such the streetfighter! Personally, I could care less about what you think about my training, but I can assure you I dont watch movies to get my training. The idea of thinking that every fight only lasts a min.---- and you're telling me the guy pumped on drugs and the crazy guys that you fight---those fights lasted only a min.? Yeah, ok. All I'm saying is, is that if you are fighting someone like you say, who is on drugs or whatever the case may be, that they obviously are not going to give up after a few min. And you better be in some good shape to continue the struggle, otherwise you will be getting your a** kicked.
Mike
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #45
MJS,
Don't know you, don't care, but you really should loose that case of small man syndrome.
A question for the kenpo folks, Are some of you horses-asses to begin with or does kenpo make you into a horses-***? The attitude some of you show is really sad and unimpressive.
Mountian Sage
Don't know you, don't care, but you really should loose that case of small man syndrome.
A question for the kenpo folks, Are some of you horses-asses to begin with or does kenpo make you into a horses-***? The attitude some of you show is really sad and unimpressive.
Mountian Sage
WOW!! Sounds like some tough words there pal! I dont think that I have a small mans complex at all. As for the Kenpo---well that is not the only art that I study, so I can't speak for the other Kenpo guys on here.
As for you---the big bad TKD guy. Like I said, size isnt everything. As for TKD. Well, that is definately one art that does not impress me at all! I train with some BJJ guys and some wrestlers that would knock you on your a** with your fancy high kicks! Speaking of Van Dam, isnt that what he does??
Mike
Mod Note:
Keep it polite and within the realm of respectful.
Also, there appears to be some serious thread drift going on. Please return to the main topic, and take the discussible tangents to a new thread.
Thank you.
Keep it polite and within the realm of respectful.
Also, there appears to be some serious thread drift going on. Please return to the main topic, and take the discussible tangents to a new thread.
Thank you.
OP
thomp
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #48
what is this, the kenponet?
What I can't figure out is what anyone here has to prove on an internet message board? This thread departed from constructive a long time ago.
I am embarassed for my art to see people like MJS posting on here.
What I can't figure out is what anyone here has to prove on an internet message board? This thread departed from constructive a long time ago.
I am embarassed for my art to see people like MJS posting on here.
OP
brianhunter
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #49
Since we are talking about movies its what the dread pirate roberts did to fezak on the princess bride HAHAHAH Hey John call me I dont have your new number since you moved!
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #50
My apologies to the board, I could have stated my question better and on another forum. Just trying to liven up the forum and seperate wheat and chaff a bit.
Mountian Sage
Mountian Sage
Well, I make an honest attempt to take part in the discussion and everybody feels that they constantly have to bash everything I say. You should re read some of the posts here. I"m am by far, not the only one that is an embarrasment.
MJS
I'm going to make an attempt to get the discussion back on track. Regarding the size of people. I am talking about the average civilian not a LEO. How each one of those people handles a situation in VERY different, so lets try to focus on the civilian. It was mentioned that there is a chance that the person you face, might be on drugs, drunk, etc. The thought that a fight will be over with one punch or that it will last only a minute, is crazy. How can anyone of us put a time on how long the fight is going to go. So many factors can come into play here-- drunk, drugs, time of day, area, weapons, and the list goes on. I am not talking about a UFC event, where the fights go on for 20+ min. I'm talking about a situation where your life depends on it, not a belt!
Take into consideration if the person is on drugs. Are they going to be affected by the hit to the groin, the shot to the nose, the eye jab? Maybe and maybe not. Considering your goal is to overwhelm them with a fury of strikes, that in itself, is going to tire you out. You also need to take into conisderation, your nerves and adrenalin. If this guy does not seem willing to give up, and you have the option of running, why not do so? Of course, you also run the risk of having this guy chase after you. That will only add to your already being tired. How about if there is more than 1 attacker? Now, you run the risk of having to fight 2 or 3 drug crazed guys.
The topic is not comparing NHB to the street. 2 different things, 2 different topics. Lets keep it like that! We are talking about body size and stamina here. We are also all different. Just because 1 person here is 6'5, 260 lbs., and can move with no problem, does NOT mean that another person with the same body size will be able to do so. You can have an in shape 260 lb guy and an out of shape 260lb guy.
The civilian will not have the option of calling for backup like a LEO will. Yeah, the backup might be 2 min away, and its going to seem like 2hrs away, but the fact remains that it is coming, and they also have more things to use than the average person--handcuffs, pepper spray, gun, baton. How many of us carry those items??
Before this thread gets shut down, due to all of the ego here, lets get it back on track, and have a civilized discussion. If something is said that offends someone, keep it off the main board, and email or PM the person and discuss it there!
MJS
Take into consideration if the person is on drugs. Are they going to be affected by the hit to the groin, the shot to the nose, the eye jab? Maybe and maybe not. Considering your goal is to overwhelm them with a fury of strikes, that in itself, is going to tire you out. You also need to take into conisderation, your nerves and adrenalin. If this guy does not seem willing to give up, and you have the option of running, why not do so? Of course, you also run the risk of having this guy chase after you. That will only add to your already being tired. How about if there is more than 1 attacker? Now, you run the risk of having to fight 2 or 3 drug crazed guys.
The topic is not comparing NHB to the street. 2 different things, 2 different topics. Lets keep it like that! We are talking about body size and stamina here. We are also all different. Just because 1 person here is 6'5, 260 lbs., and can move with no problem, does NOT mean that another person with the same body size will be able to do so. You can have an in shape 260 lb guy and an out of shape 260lb guy.
The civilian will not have the option of calling for backup like a LEO will. Yeah, the backup might be 2 min away, and its going to seem like 2hrs away, but the fact remains that it is coming, and they also have more things to use than the average person--handcuffs, pepper spray, gun, baton. How many of us carry those items??
Before this thread gets shut down, due to all of the ego here, lets get it back on track, and have a civilized discussion. If something is said that offends someone, keep it off the main board, and email or PM the person and discuss it there!
MJS
Kalicombat
Green Belt
I can speak for being in shape as a big man, which I currently am, and I can speak for being out of shape for a big man, which I was. At 500 pounds, I was in horrible shape, but at 400, I was walking 5 miles three days a week, and riding my bike 4 or 5 miles the rest of the days. I participated in kenpo, powerlifting, kobudo classes, and lived much as I do now at 250 pounds. I am still big, 3x shirt, and even if I get to 220, which is my goal, Ill still wear a 3x shirt. Some people on here know me, and they've seen me move at this size and even considerably larger. I wasnt running any marathons, but a streetfight, which I used to partake of on a weekly basis, was no problem. MJS, you cant generalize a topic like this by saying that a big guy will get wore down. In my previous post, I mentioned that some people dont fight, Im one of them. When I used to drink, alcohol played a large role in both my being so heavy and my excessive amount of street fights, but Ive been sober for 6 years now, so streetfighting is a thing of the past. I know many people like me, and its not about proving anything to anyone. If a violent confrontation is not avoidable, then there is only one option, elimination of the threat. Im not going to drop to the ground, Im not going to start boxing. I am goin to use what ever skills, weapons, tactics, etc... that are necessary to end the threat. Im not concerned about the other guys safety, whether he goes home, whether he has a family, those things dont even enter the picture. Once he or they have committed themselves to choosing me as their victim, whatever happens to them is on them.
In light of some of your other posts, Im not worried about being taken to the ground. The very rare occasions that I have ended up there, have never proven to be difficult to handle for me. Largely because I usually ended up on top, which was advantageous for me when I weighed 300, 400, 450, and Ive been powerlifting since junior high, so I was usually stronger then most of the people that I was fighting.
You're right, nobody knows you, possibly because you dont put your name on anything you post, or your profile. You could be a Dragon Kenpo master, or a true EPAK blackbelt, or something in between. No one knows what you do for a living, except you have stated you used to work in a prison. The one thing that is for sure is that you are a groundgame enthusiast, you seem to know what EPAK is lacking, and you dont tolerate anyones opinion that differs from yours. You may be a terror on the street, but your posts dont support that notion. You come off as having SOME knowledge, but little experience when it comes to street fighting. Like I have already stated, I dont know you, but the way you come off by your posts is as I have stated, in my opinion.
Now, back to the original topic. Take Tank Abbott for instance. He is definetly a terrible UFC fighter, not in great shape, and is a big guy. He has gotten choked out, submitted due to holds, and even got pounded on by some BJJ cat in alot better shape. Tank made his bones, by all accounts, bar fighting, and streetfighting. Where, supposedly he was very successful.... a true thug. Why the variance???? In the octagon there are rules, pads, lots of room, cameras, judges, time limits, and a prize. In the bar or street, there was close quarters, no room to run, lots of bottles, chairs, tables, concrete, and most importantly, NO RULES. Hair pulling, biting, weapons, groin shots with no cups, no pads, steel toes, eye gouges, etc.......all necessary tools in a streetfighters tool box. In the street, if your opponent runs, you have to catch him to hurt him. He could keep running, so , if you arent in shape you may never catch him and the fight is over anyway. Unless, you know him, where he lives, then streetfighters visit them at their house, and the fight resumes there.
All this is just saying, dont generalize overweight people as being at a disadvantage when it comes to streetfighting. Much like not all 160 pound guys are pencil-neck-geeks, not all heavy guys are couch-potatoes.
Yours in Kenpo,
Gary Catherman
[email protected]
In light of some of your other posts, Im not worried about being taken to the ground. The very rare occasions that I have ended up there, have never proven to be difficult to handle for me. Largely because I usually ended up on top, which was advantageous for me when I weighed 300, 400, 450, and Ive been powerlifting since junior high, so I was usually stronger then most of the people that I was fighting.
You're right, nobody knows you, possibly because you dont put your name on anything you post, or your profile. You could be a Dragon Kenpo master, or a true EPAK blackbelt, or something in between. No one knows what you do for a living, except you have stated you used to work in a prison. The one thing that is for sure is that you are a groundgame enthusiast, you seem to know what EPAK is lacking, and you dont tolerate anyones opinion that differs from yours. You may be a terror on the street, but your posts dont support that notion. You come off as having SOME knowledge, but little experience when it comes to street fighting. Like I have already stated, I dont know you, but the way you come off by your posts is as I have stated, in my opinion.
Now, back to the original topic. Take Tank Abbott for instance. He is definetly a terrible UFC fighter, not in great shape, and is a big guy. He has gotten choked out, submitted due to holds, and even got pounded on by some BJJ cat in alot better shape. Tank made his bones, by all accounts, bar fighting, and streetfighting. Where, supposedly he was very successful.... a true thug. Why the variance???? In the octagon there are rules, pads, lots of room, cameras, judges, time limits, and a prize. In the bar or street, there was close quarters, no room to run, lots of bottles, chairs, tables, concrete, and most importantly, NO RULES. Hair pulling, biting, weapons, groin shots with no cups, no pads, steel toes, eye gouges, etc.......all necessary tools in a streetfighters tool box. In the street, if your opponent runs, you have to catch him to hurt him. He could keep running, so , if you arent in shape you may never catch him and the fight is over anyway. Unless, you know him, where he lives, then streetfighters visit them at their house, and the fight resumes there.
All this is just saying, dont generalize overweight people as being at a disadvantage when it comes to streetfighting. Much like not all 160 pound guys are pencil-neck-geeks, not all heavy guys are couch-potatoes.
Yours in Kenpo,
Gary Catherman
[email protected]
Gary-- check your PM's
Mike
Mike
I believe that we are talking about 2 different types of large people- ones that are in shape and ones that are out of shape.
Tank falls into which category? If he can get the KO in the first few min. such as in his first UFC fight (UFC6) that is when he is freshest. If the fight starts to go on and on, you can see that he gets winded, and that usually leads to his downfall. In his final match against Oleg Taktarov, you could see that he was getting very tired. It was a result of being out of shape that led him to get choked out.
While I understand and acknowledge that not every single large person out there is out of shape, being a 'couch potatoe' will not always mean a win.
As for the larger person on the ground, of course they will use their weight advantage on the ground. I have rolled with large people in training, and was able to tire them out enough and then get a submission. Was this a real fight? NO, it was a training session, so yes, that does make a difference.
True, on the street, you have more things available to you and are not limited to the rules of the UFC. Of course, not every large person knows how to effectively fight. Considering this is a topic in which there are many variables, we need to specify what type of person we are all talking about here.
At 250 lbs. you fall into that category of being an in shape large person, who knows how to fight, compared to the person who is out of shape, and has no fighting skill.
I suppose the saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover." comes into play here. Or in this case, "You can't judge a person by their size."
Check your private messages Gary.
Mike
Tank falls into which category? If he can get the KO in the first few min. such as in his first UFC fight (UFC6) that is when he is freshest. If the fight starts to go on and on, you can see that he gets winded, and that usually leads to his downfall. In his final match against Oleg Taktarov, you could see that he was getting very tired. It was a result of being out of shape that led him to get choked out.
While I understand and acknowledge that not every single large person out there is out of shape, being a 'couch potatoe' will not always mean a win.
As for the larger person on the ground, of course they will use their weight advantage on the ground. I have rolled with large people in training, and was able to tire them out enough and then get a submission. Was this a real fight? NO, it was a training session, so yes, that does make a difference.
True, on the street, you have more things available to you and are not limited to the rules of the UFC. Of course, not every large person knows how to effectively fight. Considering this is a topic in which there are many variables, we need to specify what type of person we are all talking about here.
At 250 lbs. you fall into that category of being an in shape large person, who knows how to fight, compared to the person who is out of shape, and has no fighting skill.
I suppose the saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover." comes into play here. Or in this case, "You can't judge a person by their size."
Check your private messages Gary.
Mike
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
What? Is your interest self-defence, or attacking people? If someone runs away then that's it, you've dealt with it, over with - if you're chasing after people or going round to their houses to finish them off then that makes you the aggressor, the opponent, and the person that most people here spend time working to avoid and defeat, doesn't it? Or have I mis-understood you?
Ian.
Kalicombat
Green Belt
No, Im not going to hunt a person down over a street fight, but there are those that would.
Gary Catherman
Gary Catherman
Brother John
Senior Master
I could have sworn that the subject was "Chunkin up" and about the possible reasons that some of the seniors have gained a significant amount of weight. Perhaps the subject of Environmental variables/drugs could be started.
Just a thought...
Your Brother
John
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2002
- Messages
- 8,069
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Don't judge the whole barrell from a few rotten fruits.
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #60
Seig,
I used the word some to try and not "paint with a wide brush" the art of kempo and smaller folks. I know from this forum there are some really good kempo MA's out there, yet the rotten one tend to leave a back smell that is remembered much longer. I don't single out kempo as the only art with this problem; my own TKD has the every same problem, yet I've been around those TKD Morons so long that I've gotten numb to their stupidity and attitude. Yes folks, I'm off topic again.
Mountian Sage
I used the word some to try and not "paint with a wide brush" the art of kempo and smaller folks. I know from this forum there are some really good kempo MA's out there, yet the rotten one tend to leave a back smell that is remembered much longer. I don't single out kempo as the only art with this problem; my own TKD has the every same problem, yet I've been around those TKD Morons so long that I've gotten numb to their stupidity and attitude. Yes folks, I'm off topic again.
Mountian Sage
