Christian Martial Arts

[The Kai]

Hello
If this topic has been already beaten to death, please let me know.

Now this would be just opinions and viewed as such (weather You believe your opionin to be right or righteous)

What thoughts on Christialn Martial Arts? Not so much the average go to Church onb Sunday, Karate on Monday. But those who use the Martial arts to reinforce Doctrine-like calling a guard Stance "He protects the Innocent" Stance.

Is this a valid attempt to westerize the arts?
Is it a attempt to whitewash the history of the arts?

Todd

 

[Andrew Green]

"But those who use the Martial arts to reinforce Doctrine-like calling a guard Stance "He protects the Innocent" Stance."

I say publish a book naming it "Satan shows his claws"

 

[Jeff Boler]

Is this a valid attempt to westerize the arts?
Is it a attempt to whitewash the history of the arts?

Todd

I think the subject is too broad to give an accurate answer. Different people have different methods of how they do this. Personally, I have an MMA that I created myself based upon the years I spent in various other arts. I don't claim any historical lineage, as I don't teach the same religious principles and beliefs. If you are a teacher in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, then the religious training should match that of the particular art. I don't think that a "Christian Sect" holds much validity.

That's not to say that Christian Martials Arts have any less validity. But the inclusion of Christianity into a martial arts style is NEW, not ancient.

As long as the disitinction is made a head of time, then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

 

[Shidan]

Trying to mix church view with an activity such as martial arts is no different then taking rock rhythm music and adding 'chuchy' words.

It is a method to try to sell something that is viewed as fun and corrupt it by beating the bible into someone's head.

Believing in a higher power has little to do with a martial art technique - ones believes and values should not be crammed down someone's through when you lure them in under the gise of an activity.

Practice what you believe in your daily life and others will learn from you when you set the good example. Force feeding bible-stuff is no way to build a following and tainting your martial arts class is doing both activities (church and MA) a disservice.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Trying to mix church view with an activity such as martial arts is no different then taking rock rhythm music and adding 'chuchy' words.

It is a method to try to sell something that is viewed as fun and corrupt it by beating the bible into someone's head.

Believing in a higher power has little to do with a martial art technique - ones believes and values should not be crammed down someone's through when you lure them in under the gise of an activity.

Your generalizations here are tad broad, and I think you are operating under the assumption that we "beat the bible" into someone's head. That's simply not the case.

As I stated previously, it's too broad a topic, as each Christian Martial Arts instructor has different teaching methods. We do not have Bible study, nor do we constantly discuss the bible. However, we are sponsored by our church, we hold classes in our church, and at least 50% of the schools earnings goes to the church.

Practice what you believe in your daily life and others will learn from you when you set the good example. Force feeding bible-stuff is no way to build a following and tainting your martial arts class is doing both activities (church and MA) a disservice.

The same could be said about sports and martial arts. And again, we don't force-feed anybody. Your assumptions are way off base, and down-right insulting.

 

[The Kai]

What about Dojo's that meditate or have a Kamizan/ Is it Okay to pray or put a cross in the head of the dojo?

Todd

 

[Jeff Boler]

What about Dojo's that meditate or have a Kamizan/ Is it Okay to pray or put a cross in the head of the dojo?

Todd

Again, I think it depends on the art form they are teaching. If they are claiming to teach a ryu that has roots in Buddhism or some other religion, then I have a problem with it. Not because they are using Christianity as their religious foundation, but because they are teaching a system of martial arts that is based on another religion. I'm not sure you can go in and change the spiritual aspects, and use the original name. I don't think that's right. You are, in fact, changing the art.

However, if it is modern style of martial arts that is self created, then I think they can participate in any religious ceremony that they wish.

I don't require any of my students be Christian, nor do I "beat them over the heads with Bibles." But I do require them to respect my religious beliefs, and I, in turn, respect theirs.

 

[Jeff Boler]

One other thing to consider is that not all Christian's have the same beliefs on all things.

Example: My daughter attends preschool at the same Christian School / Church that I hold classes. She has recently become interested in the Harry Potter series of movies, and has been discussing this with classmates. She scolded (in a way) by her teacher for watching something that she considered to be evil. In her eyes, a movie about Witchcraft and Wizardry is evil.

Now, we attend the same church, and are apart of the same denomination. However, I have no problem whatsoever with Harry Potter, and I realize that most kids just few this as fantasy. Something fun to watch. Older people who were raised differently, believe otherwise.

There's no right, and there's no wrong. It becomes wrong when you FORCE your opinion on someone, and the try to hold them accountable. If I have a different opinion than someone that is testing for their blackbelt, and I hold them back due to that difference, then I would be wrong.

There are extremists in every religion. For example, I belong to a Christian Based Martial Arts Association who sends an electronic newsletter on a weekly basis. In one recent article, the writer expressed his sorrow that millions of the victims of the recent Tsunami are going to hell, because they didn't have the chance to learn about Christianity, and covert. I have a problem with this. I don't think that anyone who doesn't have the opportunity to learn about the Christian faith, dies and goes to hell. I think the circumstances surrounding their lives are clearly taken into account. To me, this idea is an extreme viewpoint.

So again, don't base your opinions on your personal experiences in a church alone. We may all believe in the fundamentals of Christianity, but our viewpoints on different subjects may be vastly different.

 

[Sin]

Crouching Satan Hidden Jesus??

Its ok to have a religious figure in a dojo, so i agree with the Kai,

This topic has been brought up before, but the only problem with worshiping a religious figure in a dojo is, what happens when you get someone who is not of the religion that the figure represents and tht person tells you take it down or I'm gone...you can lose some students that way. But on the other hand, its a privatly owned business, so it is up to the owner to what figure to represented. and it is the owners perrogative.

What i am saying to those of you who go to a Dojo that has a religious figure represented tehre, and you don't belive in that figure, and its required of you to bow...BOW ANYWAYS...your not worshiping the figure you are doing nothing more than showing respect for the people who do belive in the figure.

I hope this post made since to most of you. My respects to all.
:asian:

 

[Jeff Boler]

What i am saying to those of you who go to a Dojo that has a religious figure represented tehre, and you don't belive in that figure, and its required of you to bow...BOW ANYWAYS...your not worshiping the figure you are doing nothing more than showing respect for the people who do belive in the figure.

Excellent point. :asian:

 

[Andrew Green]

What i am saying to those of you who go to a Dojo that has a religious figure represented tehre, and you don't belive in that figure, and its required of you to bow...BOW ANYWAYS...your not worshiping the figure you are doing nothing more than showing respect for the people who do belive in the figure.

Not that simple for some...

Suppose it was agianst your religion to eat pork.

You go to a dinner that has ceremonial pig roast, It is still against your religion to eat the pig, regardless of you wanting to respect the beliefs of others.

Some peoples religious views do not allow them to do certain things which are maybe no big thing to you, but you have a different religion. Shouldn't part of "respect other peoples beliefs" include not expecting them to participate in your rituals? Especially if it is a volation of theirs?

 

[Jeff Boler]

Not that simple for some...

Suppose it was agianst your religion to eat pork.

You go to a dinner that has ceremonial pig roast, It is still against your religion to eat the pig, regardless of you wanting to respect the beliefs of others.

Some peoples religious views do not allow them to do certain things which are maybe no big thing to you, but you have a different religion. Shouldn't part of "respect other peoples beliefs" include not expecting them to participate in your rituals? Especially if it is a volation of theirs?

Oh sure, there are always going to be instances where this type of thing will happen. To be perfectly honest, if someone does not want to participate in a "religious ritual" that I believe in, that's perfectly ok with me. I respect their reasons for not doing it, as long as they respect for mine for doing it.

 

[OUMoose]

Hello
If this topic has been already beaten to death, please let me know.

Now this would be just opinions and viewed as such (weather You believe your opionin to be right or righteous)

What thoughts on Christialn Martial Arts? Not so much the average go to Church onb Sunday, Karate on Monday. But those who use the Martial arts to reinforce Doctrine-like calling a guard Stance "He protects the Innocent" Stance.

Is this a valid attempt to westerize the arts?
Is it a attempt to whitewash the history of the arts?

Todd

You may want to check out Systema and their teaching a little. As quoted from the Systema Headquarters:

As the roots of the Russian System are in the Russian Orthodox Christian faith, the belief is that everything that happens to us, good or bad, has only one ultimate purpose. That is to create the best possible conditions for each person to understand himself. Proper training in the Russian System carries the same objective – to put every participant into the best possible setting for him to realize as much about himself as he is able to handle at any given moment.

Not exactly a MA wrapped around Christianity, but it's a start. Hope that helps!

 

[Danjo]

.

 

[Sin]

I don't think that there is any religion out there that says "do not show respect to others"

If you can find one sanctioned by a goverenment...please I really would like know...cause I have been catholic all my life and I was confirmed without even seeing other religions.

 

[Andrew Green]

Who said anything about not showing respect?

That is different from not participating in something, even if you might find it trivial (ex bowing) Shouldn't that persons religion be respected and them allowed to not do it without being made to feel bad about it?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

There are extremists in every religion. For example, I belong to a Christian Based Martial Arts Association who sends an electronic newsletter on a weekly basis. In one recent article, the writer expressed his sorrow that millions of the victims of the recent Tsunami are going to hell, because they didn't have the chance to learn about Christianity, and covert.

Given that about a quarter of a million people died in that disaster (and not millions), I'd have to disagree with them, too.

I personally see nothing wrong with a person practicing Christianity and the martial arts, or integrating them as however they see fit. I've a number of Christians in my school who have reconciled whatever frictions there might be between their faith and the art they practice.

I know of one instructor who teaches "Christian kung fu." This is fine, but he's somewhat exclusionary and expects his students to wear crosses on their sashes and (I think) begin practice with a prayer. When they do a salutation they're "calling down the holy spirit."

There is nothing wrong with any of this, I suppose, other than he might alienate a certain number of Christians who don't see eye to eye with him...and he's certainly cutting out the secular crowd, the jews, buddhists, hindus, etc. I think he views this as a form of ministry, however.

I think he has a handful of students right now.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Marginal]

What thoughts on Christialn Martial Arts? Not so much the average go to Church onb Sunday, Karate on Monday. But those who use the Martial arts to reinforce Doctrine-like calling a guard Stance "He protects the Innocent" Stance.

Is this a valid attempt to westerize the arts?
Is it a attempt to whitewash the history of the arts?

Todd

No more so than having Christian Bowling, Christian fencing, Christian boxing, Christian ice blocking...

Does it add to or otherwise enhance the activity? Not really.

 

[Darksoul]

-When it comes to practicing martial arts, I believe that the practice should be between the art and the person. If you believe in something or someone, such as God, then that belief will more than likely be felt throughout all actions, all moments. Of course, it may come down to what you want out of the practice. Are we looking to become better martial artists, better people, more religious? I would say that is up to the individual. I go to class and bow to the founder and grandmasters and the statue of General Kwan, though its not required, and I certainly don't feel it as intruding on my spiritual beliefs. I believe it all depends of the situation, and people should feel comfortable to make their own decisions in class. You want to say a prayer before class? Go for it. Me, I'll be over in the corner stretching my legs, complaining about cold weather and stiff joints;-)


A---)

 

[psi_radar]

My father is a Quaker, which obviously precluded me from studying martial arts at a young age--which I wanted to do but couldn't, since quakers are total pacifists. I'd say your interpretation of the Christian faith would play a large role--like any religion, there's militant sects and pacifists. Some would say turn the other cheek, and pray for their soul, others may decide to return the blow. There's been a lot of violence in the name of Christianity. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, the colonization of South America. Systema is also steeped in the Russian Orthodox religion, though it's not absolutely required for its practice.