Chinese Historical Philosophy:

Discussion in 'Chinese Culture and History' started by Nobody, May 29, 2007.

  1. Nobody

    Nobody Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHPHIL/CHPHIL.HTM

    Please add any thing you wish be it links or what you think of the Chinese philosophy. The link above is actually about the history an give a basic idea of the time that each philosophy happened
     
  2. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    27,204
    Likes Received:
    3,423
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    A great way to understand China is to Philosophy and religions.

    Pretty much that means Confucius (and the variations), Taoist (and the variations) and Chan Buddhism, but there are other players that should be look at as well, Moists (not Mao and not of 3 stooges fame either) Legalists, etc.
     
  3. Steel Tiger

    Steel Tiger Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,412
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    The influence of Confucius and Daoism cannot be understated in Chinese philosophy and religion. Apart from the Legalist movement, most philosophies have used Confucianism or Daoism as a base, and in many cases both. Even Chan Buddhism, originally Dhyana, mixed with Daoist philosophy.

    It is surprising how similar Confucian and Daoist philosophy is given how different their starting positions were.
     
  4. JadeDragon3

    JadeDragon3 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Can someone please explain to me the philosophy of yin and yang as it relates to Taoism? I understand that yin and yang are opposites and with out one the other can not exist but how does this relate to Taoism? Any help would be appreciated.
     
  5. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    27,204
    Likes Received:
    3,423
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Taoist Philosophy

    First there was Wuji which separated into Yin and Yang
    Yin and Yang joined to make Taiji (not the martial art but opposites)

    Yin > negative, dark, wet, cold, passive, female
    Yang > active, positive, hot, bright, dry, male

    Taiji
    http://www.answers.com/topic/taiji
     
  6. oxy

    oxy Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    It's a common misunderstanding that yin and yang are "opposites". The better word to describe them is "complementary".

    As for how it relates to Taoism... the whole philosophy is all about yin and yang and the interplay between the two. Well... unless you get into what some people call "religious" Taoism (the one you make offerings of food and incense to a pantheon of immortals).
     
  7. Taiji_Mantis

    Taiji_Mantis Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I like this. This perhaps can get the rust out of my philosophical gears. The Legge translation of the Rujia is my prized possession in my philosophical texts.

    Confucianism in itself has a base in the Ancestral worship of ancient China, but Daoism is a bit of a struggle for me. Not in understanding (or lack thereof) but rather in how much I agree (or disagree) with various works.
     
  8. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    Understanding Taoism and Confucius Maoist and Chan are important schools in understanding Chinese philosophy. Also Folk religion and the different sects help as well. The site gives a good basic outline but understanding the religious and historical fact will also help in getting a clearer picture of thought.
     
  9. Taiji_Mantis

    Taiji_Mantis Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Well, lets cut with this superficial chit chat, and get down to something!

    What shall it be? Buddhism, Daoism, or Confucianism?
     
  10. Taiji_Mantis

    Taiji_Mantis Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Okay, from my perspective the most influential of the major philosophies of China (and East Asia in general) is found in the Analects, Mengzi's works, and the Doctrine of the Mean.

    I would like to initiate a conversation on "Li" or "ritual propriety" as in my opinion, this ideal touches everything else that is philosophical or metaphysical in China...
    Any takers?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Returning to a few posts back for a moment:
    I think that it goes from wuji to taiji to yin and yang. The reasoning behind this is that taiji represents the constant interplay between yin & yang -- they haven't separated yet, and do not yet exist as separate concepts or entities that can exist on their own, even temporarily.

    In other words, consider each of these (the following) existing as a state at a given moment. Each state describes fewer things than the previous state, eventually leading to a description of one of "the myriad things" (the numerals indicate levels of distinction):

    1- wuji state (everything, no distinctions)
    2- taiji state (everything, distinctions visible, but always changing, but still conceptualized as "everything" -- the seed of division is planted here)
    3- yin only state
    3- yang only state
    4- yin/yin state (two bars, both broken)
    4- yin/yang state
    4- yang/yang state
    4- yang/yin state
    5- kun trigram
    5- gen trigram
    5+- and so on, through hexagrams, etc.

    As for the pre-trigram two-bar states (e.g. yin/yin), I found those described in a book which is not with me right now, but it makes sense to me conceptually. Of course, it's all just a model. :)
     
  12. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    There is 3 Yin and 3 Yang. Older(ancient),Lesser and greater.This has its realtionship in as Mograph stated and breaks down into the Bagua. It also IMO has realtion to the channels in the body.
    In its realtion to the channels of the body:

    3 channels for arm 3 channels for leg
    1.Yang brightness
    2.Greater Yang
    3.Lesser Yang

    3 channels for arm 3 channels for leg
    1.Absolute Yin
    2.Greater Yin
    3.Lesser Yin
     
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    27,204
    Likes Received:
    3,423
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Actually from Taoist theory wuji though movement separated onto Yin and yang from this you get taiji and it is this taiji that separate into its Yin yang aspects and from this you wu xing

    http://www.triplexunity.com/docs/background1_files/image012.gif

    [​IMG]

    There is also a great diagram here
     
  14. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    In a way both Xue and Mograph are correct.

    Everything starts from Wuji and the movement in Wuji is Yang in Huang Ji
    the stillness is Yin in Huang Ji.

    From Huang Ji(Highest Emperor?) the same stillness and movement generate Tai Ji. Tai Ji has its movement and stillness generating Ancient Yin and Ancient Yang which birth Greater Yin and Greater Yang which birth Lesser Yin and Lesser Yang which birth Heaven and Earth Trigram and on to the other Trigrams. But if we look at Later Heaven Bagua we see Fire and Water replace Heaven and Earth's position. I guess it is possible that because of Tsou Yen Wu Xing theory Taoist some how fitted the Five element theory in. Looking at the diagram we see Fire is the first element created in the Wu Xing. We also see Water giving life to all things.

    Also the importance of Fire and Water,Wu Xing may have come about because of the Alchemist followers of Tsou Yen.

    Where the Fu Hsi Bagua did not have those elements in yet.
     
  15. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Could it be said that we are looking at descriptions of forces and energies, not things?

    For example, we are not looking at Yang things which eventually divide up into the myriad things, but Yang energy which divides into myriad energies? Where an energy is a direction, a force, a movement, a feeling? So Wuji would be all forces and energies, and taiji would be forces having one dominant characteristic combined with forces having the opposite dominant characteristic with those forces constantly changing direction?

    Or could yin/yang represent positively and negatively charged particles, which eventually combine to create atoms, molecules, and then matter?

    Just ponderin'.
     
  16. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    Yes we are looking at forces of energy. E=MC2 comes to mind of energy turning into form. Looking at Wuji we find emptiness then in turns produces the formula of E=MC2.

    The character used from Wu Xing(five elements) in Xue Sheng's diagram to produce the Ten thousand things is Sui(Shui) water.

    Water does have Yin and Yang. I can only speculate that the Yang energy of the water element produces life because Yang is a moving type of energy.

    It's much simplier when the Chinese just said Nuwa or other creator deity.

    Speaking of creator deity when we look thru the time periods we find the creation deity changes. And it can get confusing and at times contradicting.
     
  17. LeonidShevchenko

    LeonidShevchenko White Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Who takes - fills the palm, who pays - fills the heart. (Lao Tzu) =)
     
  18. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    123
    If energy is neither created nor destroyed, then could it be argued that the yin or yang nature of energy depends on perspective? One moves to Yin, the other moves to Yang, while the whole remains constant?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    27,204
    Likes Received:
    3,423
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Could be, could Yin and Yang then also be equated to positive and negative charges.
     
  20. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    2,280
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Could there be yin without yang? Could there be day without night? Evil without good?
     

Share This Page