CHI ? Have a look at This Clip Sifu Mooney moves subjects without touching them.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I think the problem here lays in defination of what Qi is.
I see people who say it does not exist based on THEIR defination.
As I have said this before Qi is just energy. The problem lays in people get definations of Qi mixed up and lump it all together. Qi is not a mystical force. For example Tian Qi meaning Heaven Qi sounds mystical however it can simply mean Mist or weather conditions like pressure drop or humidity. The same idea goes with humans,animals etc, etc. There really is no need to prove something biological can produce energy I think science has already figured that out and a person already knows by simple everyday activity. Somethings that are very natural can not be explained by scienctific methods YET. If we look at history many examples that were thought to be untrue or false turned out to be true because of break thrus in modern times. But skeptics will always remain skeptic if they choose to be and those who believe will believe as long as they want to believe. That is all I have to say on this thread I am sure someone will make quotes and speak their thoughts but I will not respond I see no point people have already made up their mind.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I respect that you feel that I have convinced my self of something that is not possible in your minds
but I ask that you leave a small portion of your mind open to things that you have have not yet expeienced.
I wish you all well
Keith Bryan

My mind is very open to possibility and to be honest I would love to find someone that can demonstrate what you are talking about but my personal experience after having multiple people tell me they can do this and then showing me what they can do has told me that it is not likely. I have trained taiji for years and that seems to bring in all sorts of people that claim all sorts of ability that has yet to be proven by example.

please read this carefuly
your references to chi ball fights and other kung fu theater fantasy have no place here and only serve to insult

You also have to take into account you are dealing with a lot of people here with a lot of experience. If anything I have said was taken as an insult believe me none was intended. But as a response the first line "please read this carefully" could also be taken as condescending, although I had no problem with it this is an example of interpretation issues when you are on a webpage reading posts

(I can feel one hand repel the other and this mimics magnetics) here is my personal thoughts on this the body operates using electrical signals and these signals are controled by your mind so if you take the time to bring your attention to your palms and relax with given enough practice you will be able to direct your bodys electrical signals to your hands . now I need you to understand that any time current is flowing through a conductor it will produce a magnetic field the more current the stronger the field . now seeing as how each hand is producing its own bio electrical field they will repel each other somewhat
.
it is interesting to me that they do not ever attract each other but I can tell you that each palm behaves just as apposing magnets would if they are not lined up they tend to slip off each other

I understand electrical theory but as I said, I have yet to have someone actually demonstrate this.

I believe this is nothing more than the bodys bio electrical field .

This is not an original thought you are far from alone here. Dr Yang Jwing Ming has written multiple books on this and pretty much is saying the same thing. But then again so are multiple TCM OMDs in China.

I wish you all knew me better you would know that I am a very logic based skeptic and a realist for example I reject all the pretty dance steps used in some arts that have nothing to do with attacking or defending I also reject silk gi's and any other ego based item and I believe the belt systems only purpose is for children as a reward and for school owners as a way to generate income . but I am getting a little off track here for a living I am a mechanic and I currently build and test cryogenic rocket engines and components for the space program so I do understand how to conduct experiments and isolate what is real and what is not using a series of controls

I am not exactly sure what building and testing cryogenic rocket engines and components for the space program has to do with the study of Qi but ok, thanks for sharing.

I do not build and test cryogenic rocket engines and components for the space program but I have been training martial arts for over 30 years and part of that has been made up of the study of Qigong.

please do not dismis without investigation I invite you to try chi gung metitation after a while I am confident that you will be able to feel your own bodys electro magnetic field too

You are assuming that none of us train Qigong (and the pinying spelling that a Chinese person would understand is “qigong” not “chi gung” - sorry it is a pet peeve of mine to use pinyin when discussing things Chinese) I have had 3 different Qigong teachers and the CMA styles I train (except 1 - Sanda) are considered internal (taijiquan, Xingyiquan) so Qi is a big part of that training ( I have trained Taiji the longest) and I have not yet felt what you are describing and experience has told me that it is more or less fake and those that claim they have felt it are those that really really want to feel it. But, to be honest, I would really like to be proven wrong, most unfortunately I have not yet been proven wrong.

I wish you all the best in your pursuit of Qigong and I sincerely hope you are correct in what you’re describing but experience has told me that it is not likely.

 

[exile]

please read this carefuly
your references to chi ball fights and other kung fu theater fantasy have no place here and only serve to insult

.

I am reading this carefully, and the physics you describe makes kung fu theatre family look normal.

what I am telling you also has nothing to do with fighting or defending
.
(I can feel one hand repel the other and this mimics magnetics) here is my personal thoughts on this the body operates using electrical signals and these signals are controled by your mind

No. Your mind does not control electrical signals. There is not the slightest evidence that conscious (or unconscious) thought can affect the propagation of electrical charge through any medium. No—evidence—at all. What you describe has never been demonstrated, and is based on essentially magical thinking: that a mental operation performed on an image of a thing affects the thing itself—in this case, a current flow.

Tell you what: try directing electrical current to your fingers, get hold of a light bulb, and get the light bulb to light up. Or the business end of a voltmeter. Or any other device where a current of a certain strength can register some measurement via calibration on the device reflecting the strength of any current the device is exposed to. If you can do this, under replicable conditions, in front of people who don't necessarily want you to succeed, then we have something to talk about in connection with `signals... controled [sic] by your mind'.

so if you take the time to bring your attention to your palms and relax with given enough practice you will be able to direct your bodys electrical signals to your hands . now I need you to understand that any time current is flowing through a conductor it will produce a magnetic field the more current the stronger the field . now seeing as how each hand is producing its own bio electrical field they will repel each other somewhat

I'm aware of the electrodynamics involved. And again, I would like you to try doing what you describe so that you can actually move some iron filings into a pattern that reflects the lines of force generated by the `magnetic field' you seem to think will be created by this exercise in mental visualization. Go ahead: try to control the motion of a paperclip with this `magnetic field'. Get some acquaintances of yours who you regard as moderately skeptical and show them how you can generated a magnetic field with just your mind, which will move a papter clip—or even some iron dust—around on a white piece of paper. Again, if you can't do that, then we have nothing to talk about.
.

I wish you all knew me better you would know that I am a very logic based skeptic and a realist for example I reject all the pretty dance steps used in some arts that have nothing to do with attacking or defending I also reject silk gi's and any other ego based item and I believe the belt systems only purpose is for children as a reward and for school owners as a way to generate income . but I am getting a little off track here for a living I am a mechanic and I currently build and test cryogenic rocket engines and components for the space program so I do understand how to conduct experiments and isolate what is real and what is not using a series of controls

Then presumably you understand that what I'm asking is just the minimal level of evidence anyone would have the right to expect you to provide to get your claims taken seriously.
Create a magnetic field by controlling your internal body current flow, and show it exists by moving iron filings into lines of force corresponding to the field. Can you do this?

 

[Tez3]

Could one turn off the body's electricity and stop shark attacks then?

What? Stop laughing at me you lot! :jaws:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Could one turn off the body's electricity and stop shark attacks then?

What? Stop laughing at me you lot! :jaws:

Well no.... but a shark can :uhyeah:

 

[kempocat]

you are all correct on many points
I do not have a long history on this forum and I selected a very contaversal subject and a thread about a person that is not generaly respected by most. so a careful mind might think I was sent here to defend this subject
.
but if you do a search of my posts you will see that I posted only about subjects I that I have some experience with. as a matter of fact I had to do a search to find these subjects
1. a question about Rich Alea's and his Kempo school
2. a question about CHA3 Hawaiian Kenpo
3. and of course this subject about Richard Mooney that I only met once about 12 or so years ago and was invited to his house for a free demo.
.
if you all have been in Martial arts for a long time then you NO dought know their are a lot of extreme people and down right nut cases and crooks and misguided people
.
I am not one of those people. I speak from the heart I truley am suprized that no student has come to any of you to ask about this feeling
.
LOL maybe I am crazy
after all how could a crazy person ever know he was sane or not if crazy is all he knows
at least when you are dreaming you can compare it to when you think you are awake
.
"your world is in your mind change your mind and change your world" KB2
.
I am going to move on to a different subject
thank you for your input
Keith Bryan
[email protected]

 

[Tez3]

I think that resurrecting long deceased threads is perhaps not the best way forward, it would be more interesting if you posted something of your own. I realise you were being careful and not diving in feet first and I'm sorry if perhaps we haven't taken it as seriously as you would have preferred. I'm positive you have a lot to offer and your views are very welcome on all subjects so please don't let any comments put you off!
I get very flip sometimes, put it down to my English sense of humour, it's an acquired taste lol!
I've done karate for a long time and now I do MMA, I'm afraid MMA fighters aren't likely to have experienced anything other than GnP, arm and legs locks etc. They're big into heavy hitting lol

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think that resurrecting long deceased threads is perhaps not the best way forward, it would be more interesting if you posted something of your own.

agreed

I've done karate for a long time and now I do MMA, I'm afraid MMA fighters aren't likely to have experienced anything other than GnP, arm and legs locks etc. They're big into heavy hitting lol

That figures..... MMA heavy hitters... :boxing: you would never catch a SANDA guy with that attitude :mst: (cut to Xue Sheng hitting a tree:EG: ) :uhyeah:

 

[Cruentus]

I respect that you feel that I have convinced my self of something that is not possible in your minds
.
but I ask that you leave a small portion of your mind open to things that you have have not yet expeienced
.
I wish you all well
Keith Bryan

Folks; unfortunatily we will never convince the "true believer." Convincing Mr. Bryan of reality in this case would be like telling someone who believes that Jonathan Edwards talked to her dead grandpa that he just did a cold reading. When people are unwilling to look at objective reality, it is impossible to reason with them because they are not willing to start from the same objective viewpoint as you.

That said, this is a common response. It represents an egocentric arrogence that the true believer likes to present. Somehow, with the decades of compiled martial arts exprience that we have on this thread alone, "We need to keep our mind open to things we haven't experienced..."

Look dude. I have been doing this for well over 2 decades. I have sincerely looked into CHI/KI, and what it can do, and what its limits are. I have sincerely looked into masters who have claimed to be able to do no-touch work, met with them, and have had them attempt to do their feats on me. However, I am not a "true believer" so it never, NEVER works on me.

Thats it. I ALWAYS have an open, but objective mind. No touch feats of Ki/Chi as presented by Mooney and Dillman are nothing more then stage hypnosis/magic at work.

C.

 

[Mariachi50]

i agree with Xue Sheng......

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

I can use my KI to open and start my car.

I'm even more impressed with my friend whose minivan has KI-less entry with No Touch side doors and trunk.

_Don Flatt

 

[Xue Sheng]

I can use my KI to open and start my car.

I'm even more impressed with my friend whose minivan has KI-less entry with No Touch side doors and trunk.

_Don Flatt

NOT "KI"..."CHI"...... which one of the translations of is "to eat" and I am still trying to figure out what eating has to do with ANY of this :uhyeah:

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

NOT "KI"..."CHI"...... which one of the translations of is "to eat" and I am still trying to figure out what eating has to do with ANY of this :uhyeah:

I practice a Japanese Martial Art so I use the Japanese word "KI" to say energy not "CHI". BTW if you don't eat you won't have energy and it might make you susceptable to being moved without being touched.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I practice a Japanese Martial Art so I use the Japanese word "KI" to say energy not "CHI". BTW if you don't eat you won't have energy and it might make you susceptable to being moved without being touched.

ahhh now I understand. thanks

I thought you trained Japanese martial arts by your use of Ki. I train Chinese martial arts and it is spelled Qi not Chi that is why I was wondering what eating had to do with it.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

My conversation with Xue made me realize that some who practice Chinese Martial Arts may not have understood this post.

I can use my KI to open and start my car.

I'm even more impressed with my friend whose minivan has KI-less entry with No Touch side doors and trunk.

Let me try to rephrase it for you CMA folks.

I can use my "QI" to open and start my car but I'm even more impressed with friend who can enter his minivan in a no touch fashion called "QI"-less entry.

_Don Flatt

 

[bigfootsquatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afBENV1V4kI&feature=related

THAT, my friends, is a no touch knockout!

 

[bigfootsquatch]

Let me be clear: Anyone who believes this type of thing deserves to have their money taken by these people.

:asian: I agree wholeheartedly. No touch knockout bs is just one more reason for people make jokes and laugh at martial arts.

 

[tempus]

In the Aikido classes I go to we do practice key techniques (there are 15 total). To me it is the law of physics or redirection of energy. For example is someone is pushing on you and start bending at the knees it is harder for that person to move you, etc... If you drop your "energy" downward it is hard to lift you. Like when you try to grab a screaming 2 year old and they seem to be stuck to the floor and as you try to pick them up there body is kind of limp and it becomes harder to pick them up.

With that said all the techniaues require someone pushing or pulling on you. No 6ft knock outs. Althought that would be cool! Then I could wear my darth vader halloween outfit all the time. (Did I just show part of my geekness)

 

[Tez3]

I know it as Ki too. Could these no touch knock outs be in fact a very bad case of halitosis? I have meet people whose breath can knock you down at five hundred paces!

 

[David_Gilbert]

I don't believe in CHI, in the way that you can knock off some body.