Can MySpace lift the curse?

[shesulsa]

This highlights the problem I was indicating. How are you as a private citizen going to get access to minor's or even adults DL or State ID #'s?

Why would I want that as a private citizen?

 

[jks9199]

Still, IMO, a thirteen something (or younger) should NOT have unwatched Internet access - if they're on, you're in the same room. My brother did this with his children and my sister does this with hers.

It's not enough to be there. You have to know what they're doing and who they're talking/IMing to -- and you have to be aware of their current (it changes OFTEN) slang and codes.

I spend more time than I want to on MySpace professionally. And I'll openly admit that I'm not as up on some of the phrasing and slang as I ought to be. We "old folks" may think that the kids can't spell -- but they've actually got a pattern and rules; if I recall my language terms properly, I think a linguist might classify what they use as a "creole." (I also openly admit that I may have got that wrong!)

You also have to know where they get together in real life.

I'm a cop, and I work gangs primarily right now. Most parents, many educators, and even quite a few cops aren't as aware of how gang members use MySpace and other internet tools for the gangs -- or how much gang information is out there on the internet. Unfortunately, the information that's out there is going to get a kid killed one day when they decide to copy knowledge from a "real" gang into their neighborhood gang -- and then either a true member of that gang or their rivals take exception.

Yeah -- I can go on about this... :soapbox: But the bottom line is that we almost never find kids with involved parents in gangs. We almost never find kids whose parents are actively and positively involved in their lives meeting predators on-line. And that involvement doesn't mean shuttling them to school or soccer practice or even a martial arts class; it means actually doing things with the kids, having and enforcing rules and just plain being a parent, not a buddy. OK... I'm climbing off the soapbox now.

 

[jks9199]

Well ... a couple of points:

1. I'm asking about the technology that may or may not be available to forums like this one to verify identity and age requirements just to find out what the feasibility is for automatic verification. I didnt' say the onus is on MySpace, just asking about the available technology.


2. I ban people from this site every day for false or incomplete information in their profle or if they happen to put in a birthday that shows they are younger than the required age, so I know what's involved in manually doing this.

I'm not an expert on what's available -- but the sad truth is that kids will likely find a way around it. For example, even though MySpace has restrictions based on age -- there sure seem to be a lot of 99 year olds who are amazingly computer literate... And who write like 13 year olds. And that's an easy one...

1. No, I'm not putting ALL the onus on MySpace (see above and read what I wrote) and ...

2. It becomes everyone's problem when children are irresponsible whether we like it or not. If a child breaks the law, this requires the attention of law enforcement and the possible need for facilities to house the kid - can you say tax dollars? Then when that child goes back to school, s/he must have an individualized education program which will require at least four school district employees get involved and spend extra time they don't have to assemble this plan. Then this kid will require some kind of therapeutic intervention, perhaps a combination which will take resources, and then there's the venue through which this child chose to express his/her unruliness. This all plays into the demographics of a residential area and school district performance levels which affect the sale of real estate and the flow of local commerce.

MySpace works with law enforcement, and supports law enforcement efforts. AOL has a long history of providing "kid safe" areas, and doing their best to keep them that way, as do other ISPs. We can't make the internet kid-safe anymore than we can make the world kid-safe. Parents can, first, parent their kids, and, second, raise kids who aren't unaware of the dangers and have the tools to make good choices. That's all we can ask of any of them. Some kids are still gonna screw up...

Just a clue here for you folks who can't seem to understand this: Good parents can raise kids who chose to turn bad.

Yes -- and bad parents sometimes (more often than we credit) raise good kids. I hate the plea for sympathy that runs "I grew up in a bad neighborhood/had bad parents/a child of divorce/etc" crap. Plenty of kids come out of bad neighborhoods, and don't deal drugs, don't join gangs and don't get in trouble. Plenty of kids come from bad family situations and somehow manage to become productive members of society. Plenty of kids weather a divorce and become functional adults. And so on...

And I'll still say that good parents are much less likely to raise bad kids!

 

[Infinite]

Why would I want that as a private citizen?

Well how else are you going to validate it? You have to ask for it and then pass it to something or someone to validate that it is valid and assigned to the person claiming to be that age and or person.

Worse is you have to do it for every state who's ID's are all different.

Right now if you use a credit card it is just charged for a penny then reversed. If the charge is successful then your address / information matches the card.

We just don't have any system like that for younger than 18.

 

[jks9199]

Well how else are you going to validate it? You have to ask for it and then pass it to something or someone to validate that it is valid and assigned to the person claiming to be that age and or person.

Worse is you have to do it for every state who's ID's are all different.

Right now if you use a credit card it is just charged for a penny then reversed. If the charge is successful then your address / information matches the card.

We just don't have any system like that for younger than 18.

Because of juvenile privacy laws, I don't think there's really much of a way to do it with a self-registered site. You mentioned matching IP addresses -- but that's got problems, too. Say I register at work or school, not home; could the IP address be significantly different? Or if I use an ISP service like AOL that assigns a new IP address each time you log on... Or go through a masking site, for various reasons?

I don't think there's a really good way for a web site to verify ages; there are just too many ways around it. I think it's much more practical for parents to be involved. Check out your kid's MySpace page... And check the pages of their friends, too. If your kid has 2 (or more) pages -- they'll probably show up on one of their friends sites... And don't just rely on your kid to show you the site. If you can spend time on a martial arts message board -- you can spend time looking at your kid's MySpace, too!

 

[Infinite]

Because of juvenile privacy laws, I don't think there's really much of a way to do it with a self-registered site. You mentioned matching IP addresses -- but that's got problems, too. Say I register at work or school, not home; could the IP address be significantly different? Or if I use an ISP service like AOL that assigns a new IP address each time you log on... Or go through a masking site, for various reasons?

I don't think there's a really good way for a web site to verify ages; there are just too many ways around it. I think it's much more practical for parents to be involved. Check out your kid's MySpace page... And check the pages of their friends, too. If your kid has 2 (or more) pages -- they'll probably show up on one of their friends sites... And don't just rely on your kid to show you the site. If you can spend time on a martial arts message board -- you can spend time looking at your kid's MySpace, too!

All very true points but she was asking us to specifically explore if there WERE options. So I am attempting to and just finding myself not getting any sort of solution.

There is a associate methodology that could be used here... now that we have critical mass on the board we could for example require someone to validate their age in person. Assign dojo's or individuals that volenteer in an area to meet people who are signing up.

That's an extra ordinary level of burden tho.

Once again I'll chew on this and see if I can find a simple way to do this but I'm doubting I am smart enough.

 

[Kreth]

All very true points but she was asking us to specifically explore if there WERE options. So I am attempting to and just finding myself not getting any sort of solution.

Maybe in a few years when biometric id systems become more widespread. IBM has been using fingerprint scanners in some of their high-end Thinkpads for a while now. Eventually the other vendors will adopt a standard.

 

[Infinite]

Maybe in a few years when biometric id systems become more widespread. IBM has been using fingerprint scanners in some of their high-end Thinkpads for a while now. Eventually the other vendors will adopt a standard.

So who is going to store the master record of who's finger prints are who's? Are you going to submit a digital fingerprint to a central strage facility that can then be quried against to ensure you are who you say you are?

What is to prevent me from registering my finger prints as oh I don't know George W. Bush?

I don't think the biometrics is going to do anything here it just another end point identifier with no central mechanism.

 

[Kreth]

So who is going to store the master record of who's finger prints are who's? Are you going to submit a digital fingerprint to a central strage facility that can then be quried against to ensure you are who you say you are?

I suspect that we're moving towards a central database with that information, or something similar. I remember reading an article not long ago about a convenience store chain testing a system that allowed customers to process a bank debit payment with a thumbprint.

 

[Infinite]

I suspect that we're moving towards a central database with that information, or something similar. I remember reading an article not long ago about a convenience store chain testing a system that allowed customers to process a bank debit payment with a thumbprint.

One of the reasons I'm moving out of the US

I'd rather not need my thumb to buy some milk.

 

[Kreth]

One of the reasons I'm moving out of the US

I'd rather not need my thumb to buy some milk.

I'm gone if Hillary gets elected. But biometrics is the next logical step from EZPass and other similar systems.

 

[jks9199]

One of the reasons I'm moving out of the US

I'd rather not need my thumb to buy some milk.

But how will you carry the jug of milk if you leave your thumb at home? :wink:

Seriously -- while I expect a wider range of verification options, I doubt that here in the US, you'll see too much centralization. We still can't get all 50 states to agree on driver's licenses and data formats at the DMV...

As to having someone verify --I belong to a site that does that. It's cumbersome, and ends up taking several hours a week of someone's time. (Actually, several someones.) It's good for some situations, but not perfect. I also know of at least one incident where a reasonably stringent verification process failed...

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

If you are thinking about terminating your Myspace account, then you should terminate your account here at MT. Both are the same thing. It is up to the user to choose not to post their name, info, address, or phone number. It is not Myspace's responsibility.
Also, anyone can go to facebook, MartialTalk, Xanga, Gecotities, or any site that allows you to post things and post personal info. It always boils down to common sense.

Sidenote: very little of the population has common sense, so Myspace will be punished because most of its users are idiots.

AoG

Exactly what I was thinking. Why is everyone blaming myspace? It's the users who post everything about themselves and talk to everyone who contacts them that get in trouble. It's people's stupidity, not the site. If your smart about it, you won't get into trouble. Common sense is the key.

 

[Infinite]

Exactly what I was thinking. Why is everyone blaming myspace? It's the users who post everything about themselves and talk to everyone who contacts them that get in trouble. It's your own stupidity, not the site. If your smart about it, you won't get into trouble. Common sense is the key.

This goes back to understanding the risk potential in the things that you do.

Typical Parents do not understand the risks and thus just blame the site. I'd say the vast majority of issues can be solved by

a) an educated parent
b) an active parent in the kids life

:soapbox: