Can knife fights be won by simply overpowering an opponent? Can disarms be done with brute strength?

Discussion in 'Knife Arts' started by Bullsherdog, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. Bullsherdog

    Bullsherdog Yellow Belt

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    Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.

    However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.

    I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes.
     
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  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    Yes
     
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  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yes. Not particularly the best option though.
     
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  5. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Shouldn't Beatrix "Black Mamba" Kiddo have been using her left hand to punch out of her buried coffin in Kill Bill 2? Probably doesn't matter too much...

    it-s-only-a-movie-1.jpg
     
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  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Yes. Of course, the opposite could be true. If fear had not controlled the poor kid the 'fight' would have never happened.

    IF a frog had a clutch they would not jump.;) I could not resist.
     
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  7. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    I find her oddly sexy in that scene
     
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  8. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Another nonsense post written in the style of a quora farmer. At least you are consistent.

    This is the most unnecessarily lengthy way of asking the (hopefully rhetorical) question of whether people are stronger than people they are stronger than.

    Assuming you are asking this in earnest..yes...

    People are stronger than people they are stronger than. Also people taller than you are taller than you, and smart people are definitely smarter than you(all of them in fact)
     
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  9. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    The face when Blauer used that scene to demonstrate his inside 90degrees, outside 90degrees concept.


    (one of many scenes/scernioros used to demo it)
     
  10. Parzival

    Parzival Green Belt

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    You can overpower someone at any time, technique can overpower power, but power and technique is where it's at
     
  11. MFC__2020

    MFC__2020 Yellow Belt

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    Ive never seen the movie Saving Private Ryan...but I did watch a few clips and none of them show an actual disarm technique because the scene jumps. So it's impossible to say if brute strength or technique were used for the knife to change hands. In the position he's in(the guy that got mounted if you speak MMA) there are multiple ways for someone to make you lose possession of a knife. You are always open for counter attack if you have a skilled adversary.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In knife fight, speed is more important than power. When a mosquito flies in front of you, you use both palms to smash it. Do you use your body to chase your arms (speed), or do you use your body to push your arms (power)?
     
  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is kind of my fairly devisive theory.

    You can overwhelm a guy so that he doesn't have time to attack you back.

    So there is a chance that just keeping momentum in a fight will prevent you from being stabbed even if you don't address the knife.

    There is also a chance you will mess that up.

    But trying to grab the hand of of a knife wielding attacker isn't a much better option. And almost doesn't work either.

    So just overpowering is a viable option.
     
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  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I agree with a few qualifiers. From a pure speed or power basis I think the odds are pretty slim. When using SA and emotional distraction (bluff and BS) And speed/power the odds are decent for a practiced person. But it will always be at the bottom of my list of choices.
    If a persons 'practice' is the theatrics where you use the guys knife to stab them while the are still holding the knife, well I hope that speaks for itself.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah but that is if for example you have arms like steel pipes. In which case perfectly doable.

    Go let an older labourer or a brickie get hold of your wrist.
     
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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I trained with a guy who had been a mover (helping move people’s furniture) for decades. His grip strength was another level.
     
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  17. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Had an old LEO friend work out with use who we affectionately called Jimmy "the body" Johnson. He not look like anything special but damn was he strong. I don't care what joint manipulation or pressure point trick a person tried, if he knew it was coming it was not going to work. Had to work damn hard to distract him enough to get any kind of lock or breakaway on him.
     
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  18. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    IRL with someone who wanted to hurt me with the big kitchen knife, I was able to power stop.
    I checked their incoming hand and gripped their wrist and kept squeezing until they screamed and I kept telling them I would not let go until they let go of the knife.
    When they did I kept a hold of them stepped on the blade and then let go of them.
    ..
    As to disarms, they are windows of opportunity that flash by. If one is in the right place and recognizes it on time, to be able to react and execute then possible.
    Just my thoughts.
    Experiences will vary
    No one technique solves all problems
    ....
     
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  19. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    If the big strong guy survives the first couple of cuts or stabs, doesn't bleed out, and can immobilize the knife hand, he can win. He will get cut if the knife fighter has some skill. Otherwise, and most of the time, the knife fighter will win.
     
  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well most of the time,, possibly, maybe

    kbife fightibg isnt that common that many people have a great deal of exsperiance of it, and very few people practice it, i would suggest, rather just stick a knife in their pocket and go out for the night,

    if you kbow he has a knife and you have room to move, alowing that you have basic fightibg skill of speed, reactions and mobility, you have a fairly good chance

    if he cant punch you, he probebly cant stab you either, if he over comits and misses you should be able to take him out123
     

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