Buying Dan rank over the Internet

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I am quite satisfied with my own situation. I actually resisted the advancement to Senior Level 2, but was eventually told to shut up and deal with it. He is my teacher, so out of respect for him, I did.

When the time comes for Dan gradings, my instructor posts a list in the reception area of our school.
He says, "If your name isn't on the list and you think it should be, come and see me and we will discuss it."
He then goes on to say, "If your name is up there and you don't think it should be, then you'd better take over the class, because obviously you know more than I do about your ability!"

--Dave

:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Is that like saying a Rolls Royce is somewhat of an expensive car?

--Dave

I meet very few people that know who he is.......but I do meet people that have heard of tuite and kyusho.........2 things he introduced into America.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
When the time comes for Dan gradings, my instructor posts a list in the reception area of our school.
He says, "If your name isn't on the list and you think it should be, come and see me and we will discuss it."
He then goes on to say, "If your name is up there and you don't think it should be, then you'd better take over the class, because obviously you know more than I do about your ability!"

--Dave

:asian:

That's cool.

 

[chufeng]

To me there is a big differance from just buying a piece of paper which I think most people here think is going on. And associating yourself with an organization to put yourself in the position to earn rank that you may already deserve.

Within this post lies one of the problems...anyone who believes that they DESERVE rank, probably doesn't...those who do deserve it, won't think they deserve it...

I knew a judoka who was ranked at white belt for five years...
His teacher was old fashioned (ranked in Judo and JuJitsu) and tested his student's desire to learn the system by whether they WANTED rank, or could care less...when it was time for this white belt to move away, his teacher handed him a green-belt and told him that he was ready for a brown, but he could get that from his next teacher...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[James Kovacich]

RyuShiKan,

First I've never heard anything but good things of Gogen Yamaguchi and Peter Urbin. You stated 3 things that I've never heard. The Sokeships, I assume are not a thing of the past, that would make them relatively new and the majority of the "Heads of Familys" are Americans, which leads to the another.

I never heard that of peter Urbin but something did obviously happen because you always hear people say they are unsure why he had broke away from Japan and started his U.S.A. Goju. From an Americans point of view(generally), considering the times back then, I don't think any American could of lived up the Japanese standards. We just were not raised in a structured way, its not in our blood.

But he is still the one that Introduced Goju to America and is considered the Father of all American Goju Systems. I was under the impression that Gogen Yamaguchi was the successor to Goju in the mainland Japan and Meitoku Yagi was designated in Okinawa.

But I am curious about the "Dubiousness of Gogen Yamaguchi." And would that have anything to do with Gogens son Gosei Yamaguchi came to America.

A FOOTNOTE: Americans since the beginning have found their own way in everything they've done. That is to be expected I would think. We've all heard the saying "when in Rome do as the Romans do." Thats all I can say about are culture without igniting a "cultural debate."

 

[SRyuFighter]

Originally posted by akja
SRyuFighter,
Cigerettes and alcohol should be made illegal too! So!
You really don't know what your talking about when it comes to training! I have more years in the arts than you've been on this earth! How are you going to tell me?


That is wonderful that you have been in the arts longer than I have been on this earth. I'm proud of you. So you're telling me that you think that it is ok to order a black belt or any dan rank over the phone/internet with no training what so ever and then start teaching your own little method of fighting and saying that it is something else and showing the certificate you bought to prove it?!?! That Akja was what I was referring to, and I don't care if your 1,000 years old if you think that that is right and something that should go on then you are seriousily mistaken.

 

[RyuShiKan]

I can see it now..........next time I call Domino's Pizza in the US.........Yeah gimme a large Pepperoni with everything, a 2 liter and let's see............ah yeah thrown in a couple of 6 dans and a Sokeship too will ya.

 

[SRyuFighter]

Hahaha, well seriousily though don't you all think that that is wrong. There was a guy in my area that bought his rank over the internet and one of his students got seriousily hurt by a few bullies. It was a very sad thing, shortly after that the truth of his instructor came out. And the credibility of the good instructors is still being questioned. That is personally why I think that it is wrong to buy rank such as over the internet or something like that. Paying for a test is no big deal. But buying a rank is wrong, it's simply wrong.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
The Sokeships, I assume are not a thing of the past, that would make them relatively new and the majority of the "Heads of Familys" are Americans, which leads to the another.

The World Head of Family Sokeship problem with my teacher is about 4~5 years old.
They have no right to use or associate themselves with his name and several other respected martial artist and only do so to make themselves sound more legit..........which they aren't.

Originally posted by akja
But he is still the one that Introduced Goju to America and is considered the Father of all American Goju Systems.

This is could be true.

Originally posted by akja
I was under the impression that Gogen Yamaguchi was the successor to Goju in the mainland Japan and Meitoku Yagi was designated in Okinawa.

The Head Honcho title for Goju in Okinawa was claimed I think by 2 people at one time.
Since Mr. Yagi just died last week, and the other died some time back I have no idea who is the head now.

Originally posted by akja
But I am curious about the "Dubiousness of Gogen Yamaguchi." And would that have anything to do with Gogens son Gosei Yamaguchi came to America.

From what I have heard and read from various sources Yamaguchi’s training was lacking on many levels. Having seen him do a demo and watching the poor quality of his technique, then seeing him perform a kata, forget part of it half way through then adlib for a bit and finally finish the kata was a bit disappointing.
Yamaguchi also claims to have killed a tiger while interned in a Russian POW camp during WWII…………a claim that is pure BS.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter
Hahaha, well seriousily though don't you all think that that is wrong.

When people start calling themselves Soke and claiming and handful of 10th dans and 9th dans, selling dan ranks over the Internet etc, they cheapen the art for those that train seriously.
Those impostors remind me of Barney Fief (Andy Griffith Show) claiming they are going to give somebody a deadly “Judo Chop”.

 

[SRyuFighter]

Exactly, they are cheating their students out of good training. And embarrasing the Martial Arts community with their actions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think we can say the same thing for people who go from 2nd degree, to 5th degree to GM within about a year or so.

A piece of paper means nothing. It is the skill behind it that matters.

 

[SRyuFighter]

Another good point.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter

Originally posted by akja
SRyuFighter,
Cigerettes and alcohol should be made illegal too! So!
You really don't know what your talking about when it comes to training! I have more years in the arts than you've been on this earth! How are you going to tell me?


That is wonderful that you have been in the arts longer than I have been on this earth. I'm proud of you. So you're telling me that you think that it is ok to order a black belt or any dan rank over the phone/internet with no training what so ever and then start teaching your own little method of fighting and saying that it is something else and showing the certificate you bought to prove it?!?! That Akja was what I was referring to, and I don't care if your 1,000 years old if you think that that is right and something that should go on then you are seriousily mistaken.

Sorry, sometimes I am a man of little patience. My way is you push, I push a little harder.

My brother-in-law who is of my former Sensei, taught me that in sparring to teach me control. He being an ex-pro fighter was in total control while I was not. I learned and lived by it in all ways of my life. Believe me these "young bucks" these days think they are unstoppable and that attitude all around keeps them in check or at least they no better than to cross the line.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Akja,

I just noticed something.

You and I were born on the same day.

 

[RyuShiKan]

AKJA,

I just had a quick peak at your website. http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/home.html

I noticed your style is called ATEMI KEMPO JUJITSU.

What is your definition of atemi?

Also, something you may want to change is this:
“SHICHIKYU 7th Kyu Orange Belt - 6 Months ------------------------------------Orange - Shichikyu - Tapes #1 & 2”

While shichi is used in Japanese for counting it is never used in this context.
Actually the word “nanakyu” (7th kyu) would be used instead of shichi.

Why?
The word for death in Japanese is shi and shichi (7) sounds similar to shi= death

 

[James Kovacich]

When I posted my site. I mistook the guy I was talking to for being my friend who I referred to my Sifu but he was actually my friends friend. After I referred my friend, he brought in a couple of his friends too. When I saw him talking about my Sifu and his profiles employment is the same as my friends. I thought he was friend and I wanted him to see the updatesthat he hadn't seen. Actually he showed t to my Sifu which I would of done "when it was finished' and now he is upset.

My site is far from ready to be plastered all over the internet, nothing is near complete, its a work in progress but since you put it out there, lets go.

1st- My definition of Atemi is to strike but more acurately to strike the vital areas. Atemi is a word that I chose because it in my opinion goes well with the word Kempo. There are a few "Kempo Jujitsus out there. Mine is differant, and it needs to be represented differantly. Secondly my I promised My Sifu I wouldn't teach his art in a fashion similar to Jeet Kune Do Concepts. In other words adding more arts. I have kept that promise. This opened the door for my system. I used Carter Hargraves American Combat Kempo as a base and I've been expanding upon ever since.

I was already a grappler when I met my Sifu and it is a part of me. The way I train and teach isn't what the majority of instructors do. I have a lot of experience in good systems.

I don't put down the traditional arts. I have 3 traditional Instructors. But like in my other posts I stated that I teach my students to beat any system that I've learned.

There are no kata, no chambered punches, no deep stances that I have yet to see anyone use in actual combat. Just realistic fight training based on all of my experience with Jun Fan Gung-Fu and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being drawn from the most.

I teach differantly in a lot of respects. I like to start in the clinch. Its to easy starting from the outside or on the ground. We do that too. But I have 5 ranges. The three main are outside striking range, clinch range and ground grappling range. The two sub ranges are trapping or outside to clinch range and stand up grappling or clinch to ground grappling.

Thats how I teach starting in the clinch. A fight can go in any direction at any time. So its important to start from all 3 main ranges. If you are trying to teach your students to flow in all ranges they need a method of training that takes a realistic approach to all ranges.

I believe in teaching all ranges separately so that they get a deep "understanding" of all ranges but we also spend a lot of time practicing "all ranges" together. Thats the only way to develop "the flow."

Don't misunderstand me. I understand the importance of preseving the old and I know that I can and do learn from Kata. But a realistic approach for the students of today is much differant than what most are actually doing.

Anybody can say so and so's rank isn't worth anything but mine is an "eclectic system" which really has nothing to do with traditionalism. I am actually putting back in "some"of the traditionalism. Structure is important and students who respect one another but at the same time they need to be modern day warriors.

IF YOU DON'T MIND. COULD YOU ENLIGHTEN ME ABOUT YOUR SYSTEM. DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS NOT YOUR OWN. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO I AM TALKING TO. I THINK IT IS FAIR SINCE YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT ME.

 

[JDenz]

I think that it depends on your stlye and skill level. Now say I am a BJJ guy. Say I studied for 4-5 years at a place with just a brown or even purple belt. So I send in a video of my training and my tournament wins and get the rank.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Do you think buying martial arts dan rank over the Internet is a legitimate way to earn rank ?

That's one of the reasons why rank hasn't had any meaning in years. Seems like everybody is a black belt, or a "master" in something you never heard of because someone made it up in the last ten years. Everybody has an uncle who is a grandmaster.

My people don't wear belt stripes at all. Why should we? We know who we are, and don't care whether anyone else knows or not.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Doc
That's one of the reasons why rank hasn't had any meaning in years. Seems like everybody is a black belt, or a "master" in something you never heard of because someone made it up in the last ten years. Everybody has an uncle who is a grandmaster.

My people don't wear belt stripes at all. Why should we? We know who we are, and don't care whether anyone else knows or not.

I agree.

Which is why I am more wary of the guy that says "I am just a shodan" than the guy who claims to be a Soke .
"The wise eagle hides it's claws"