Business or pleasure?

[chrismay101]

Should the TKD school you learn at be run like a business or more like a friendly club?

At the moment I would say I'm learning at the latter. You may say the friendly one is the way to go but is it?
some times I think there is a much more laid back approach which can be good but sometimes I feel like I'm treading water when I should be swimming.

The business side is a lot less personal but I think progress would be quicker and it comes across as being more professional.

What do you lot Think??????

 

[Kacey]

I think it depends on what the instructor wants to get out of it. If the instructor is teaching TKD as their primary job, then the focus will be different than if the instructor is teaching a class or two in a recreation center somewhere. Also, it depends on the instructor's viewpoint toward the issue.

For myself, the class I teach is much more of a friendly club - but I teach a single class, 2x/week, at a YMCA - which is very different from running a school and using it as your primary source of income.

 

[exile]

The fact that a club is run on a business basis doesn't necessarily mean that the advantage will be to you, the student. You can bet that the McDojang belt-mills are run with plenty of due attention to the bottom line, but how does that benefit the practitioners who wants real substance from their instruction, and would just as soon not be treated as items on an assembly line that stamps out dan ranks in a fashion similar to a drill-bit factory?

A club atmosphere is usually more informal, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily any less intense. Skilled, dedicated and demanding instructors who are determined to take full advantage of their freedom from a balance sheet can teach you in a much more individually tailored way, and acquaint you with techs and applications that are generally unheard of in large commerically driven dojangs. Myself, I'd much rather have a small club with an instructor passionate about TKD and happy to work with you at your own pace, than any number of slick trophy cases and multipage contracts.

 

[chrismay101]

Thanks to both of you for your points of view!

I would say my main instructor is 1st dan and I am also able to train with a 2nd and a 3rd dan's
Which is good

but at the more business type place I could be instructed by a 5th is this worth considering? in your opinion

 

[bluemtn]

The one I attend is "friendly", even the main dojang. We'll talk as we stretch, and afterwards, but there is no talking during training- unless there's a question/ problem. I think it's good to have this kind of atmosphere...

 

[Kacey]

Thanks to both of you for your points of view!

I would say my main instructor is 1st dan and I am also able to train with a 2nd and a 3rd dan's
Which is good

but at the more business type place I could be instructed by a 5th is this worth considering? in your opinion

It depends on factors that go beyond the rank of the instructor(s). Which one do you like better? Who provides the training that best meets your needs? Those are ultimately more important than the rank of your instructor.

Let me give you an example: my sahbum is now a VI Dan, but when I started TKD 20 years ago, he was a II Dan. It was his personality and teaching style that I responded to, that caused me to commit to learning more and more about what he was teaching - not his rank at the time. I had the opportunity to train with quite a few of his seniors - including a VII Dan - early in my career (and later, too), and none of them appealed to me as an instructor the way he did. I would not have changed them, regardless of the rank of the potential instructors available, and I am very glad I made the decision I did.

 

[Carol]

I think it also depends on the teacher that builds the environment. Some teachers to me seem better suited for a family/friendly style atmosphere, other teachers seem to thrive better in a professional atmosphere.

Both can work really well.

 

[Callandor]

Should the TKD school you learn at be run like a business or more like a friendly club?

At the moment I would say I'm learning at the latter. You may say the friendly one is the way to go but is it?
some times I think there is a much more laid back approach which can be good but sometimes I feel like I'm treading water when I should be swimming.

The business side is a lot less personal but I think progress would be quicker and it comes across as being more professional.

What do you lot Think??????

Currently, I'm enrolled in a school which is more like the latter. It's more like a coach/competitor than a teacher/student thing. But respect and discipline is always there. Just the focus - sport rather than art. I'm even starting to like it now. I have to look around for poomse and SD, though.

 

[TKDmel]

The fact that a club is run on a business basis doesn't necessarily mean that the advantage will be to you, the student. You can bet that the McDojang belt-mills are run with plenty of due attention to the bottom line, but how does that benefit the practitioners who wants real substance from their instruction, and would just as soon not be treated as items on an assembly line that stamps out dan ranks in a fashion similar to a drill-bit factory?

A club atmosphere is usually more informal, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily any less intense. Skilled, dedicated and demanding instructors who are determined to take full advantage of their freedom from a balance sheet can teach you in a much more individually tailored way, and acquaint you with techs and applications that are generally unheard of in large commerically driven dojangs. Myself, I'd much rather have a small club with an instructor passionate about TKD and happy to work with you at your own pace, than any number of slick trophy cases and multipage contracts.

I recently left a school that was "money driven" just for that reason. I am now teaching at a college TKD club where the students literally soak up everything I have to teach them. I no longer have to deal with the "black belt factory" attitudes, the politics, or the tiny little ones that are no more prepared to learn TKD than the man on the moon.

The students are there to learn, not play or be babysitted. They seem to be more respectful and take things seriously as far as SD and poomse are concerned as well as the history and traditions of TKD. For me, the choice is clear....clubs where the instructors are passionate about TKD, like Exile stated, can be very good, rewarding places to learn.

 

[exile]

I recently left a school that was "money driven" just for that reason. I am now teaching at a college TKD club where the students literally soak up everything I have to teach them....The students are there to learn, not play or be babysitted. They seem to be more respectful and take things seriously as far as SD and poomse are concerned as well as the history and traditions of TKD. For me, the choice is clear....clubs where the instructors are passionate about TKD ... can be very good, rewarding places to learn.

I'm glad you found a happier TKD home than you had previously, TKDM. And I think your experience is probably universal. Very often the outstanding practitioner/instructor will be drawn to a less commercial environment, just because the students at such schools are much less likely to buy into the `I'm paying for it so I deserve the next belt' type of mentality. Unfortunately, far too many people are sucked in by the `you get what you pay for' idea, which may well be true in terms of European sports sedans or Bordeaux, but is totally the wrong model for the complex relationship between teaching and learning.

Teachers, really good teachers, teach because they have to—they have a vision of their field, or art, or craft, and they need to transmit that to others, so that the full quality of that domain of knowledge and skill can be passed on to someone else and thereby continue to survive and grow further. The very best teachers, I've found, are driven to pass on what they worked so hard to master themselves. They don't want to hoard it, dispensing it for cash to the highest bidder or the `Black Belt Club' suckers. Their pleasure comes from seeing their students `get it'—that light coming on (I get the distinct sense that you're that kind of teacher, TKDM

)

My own teacher is like that. In four years of TKD I haven't paid a dime for top-quality instruction by a fifth dan KKW certified black belt who asks only that his students work as hard at trying to learn as he does teaching. He has a day job which pays the freight, and I wish he were able to do TKD teaching full time and earn his living at it; but the fact is, what motivates him is the art itself. And there are a lot of teachers like that out there—and many of them won't be found at high-profit by-the-numbers dojangs...

 

[TKDmel]

I'm glad you found a happier TKD home than you had previously, TKDM. Teachers, really good teachers, teach because they have to—they have a vision of their field, or art, or craft, and they need to transmit that to others, so that the full quality of that domain of knowledge and skill can be passed on to someone else and thereby continue to survive and grow further. The very best teachers, I've found, are driven to pass on what they worked so hard to master themselves. They don't want to hoard it, dispensing it for cash to the highest bidder or the `Black Belt Club' suckers. Their pleasure comes from seeing their students `get it'—that light coming on (I get the distinct sense that you're that kind of teacher, TKDM

)

Thank you for the kind words Exile. I am much happier now. It has always been my goal to pass on whatever I can to others. I'm glad that now I can and that my students are eager to learn. I would rather teach 5 good students willing to learn out of a garage rather than compromising my values and ethics for money at a McDojang. Again thanks for the kind words and your support.

 

[Kacey]

Teachers, really good teachers, teach because they have to—they have a vision of their field, or art, or craft, and they need to transmit that to others, so that the full quality of that domain of knowledge and skill can be passed on to someone else and thereby continue to survive and grow further. The very best teachers, I've found, are driven to pass on what they worked so hard to master themselves. They don't want to hoard it, dispensing it for cash to the highest bidder or the `Black Belt Club' suckers. Their pleasure comes from seeing their students `get it'—that light coming on (I get the distinct sense that you're that kind of teacher, TKDM

)

That's why I teach TKD, and why my sahbum teaches... teaching TKD is why I decided that I wanted to be a teacher as a career. There are good instructors out there who make a decent living teaching MA full time; there are also bad instructors who are good at marketing and running a business... and there are a lot of students who don't know the difference, at least when they start.

In addition, what makes a good instructor can be pretty subjective; the right instructor for me might be wrong for you, depending on what you're looking for. I was lucky enough to find the right instructor by chance; you were able to find the right instructor after knowing what you wanted. Lots of people are not as lucky as either of us.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

My school is actually a mix of both. I work two jobs in addition to running my school. My school is small, I like it that way, I keep it that way. My school is only part time, but I still have to pay for rent and such. However, just because it is a commercial school has not changed the fact that it has a friendly club feel. Most of my students are there because they want to be, not because they are locked into a contract (which I offer, but do not require). I teach because I was taught and have enjoyed the benefits I reaped from my training which I believe could also benefit others. I recognize I am not the end-all, be-all of instructors (far from it actually) and I encourage newcomers to try my school, if it works for them, I tell them to sign up. If the school does not feel right to them, I offer to introduce them to the other local instructors (with whom I try to maintain good communication) to see if one of them would be a better fit. While this practice may be bad for business, it is good for my conscience.