Wow, I read this entire thread and went for a walk with my kids to think about it.
Regarding MMA...
Years ago before UFC, I trained in kickboxing and wrestling. We took each other down and practiced shooting regularly. It's always boggled my mind that so many MAists in North America didn't know how to defend against the shoot or even what they should do on the ground.
Anyway, what the UFC did is show that those techniques were important too. Before, fighters had huge gaps in their defenses...and a system arose to fill that gap. Now, pretty much everyone looks the same and there is nothing really innovative being done in the octagon anymore.
With that being said, the things that go on in the octagon are only the tip of the iceberg. I have had the priviledge of meeting and training with some masters that wouldn't set foot in that setting for various reasons (T.T Liang happened to be 80 years old when the UFC first came out). A lot of things they did and do have never been seen in the octagon and may never be...but they ARE still applicable in self defense situations...
This leads me to believe that what we see in MMA is not the pinnacle, but only the tip of the iceberg.
Regarding the index SL4 technique...
The technique described in beautiful detail sounded familiar to me. I have no kenpo experience (but after reading this thread, I wish to change that) so bare with me.
In Tai Chi Chuan there is a technique called Repulse Monkey. It sounds almost exactly like what was described. If you find a good teacher of Tai Chi (which is really difficult because of a proliferation of the hippy dippy tai cheese garbage out there) that person will describe Repulse Monkey in the same language that it was described and then that person will help articulate your body down to the minutae in order to get the desired effect.
The end result. My tai chi teacher asked me to shoot in on him as hard as I wanted to. I did so, full blast, from across the room, just as I did when I was in the ring. I have trained hard almost every day for 17 years. I lift weights, do cardio, regularly attend class, and practice on my own. My tai chi teacher is in his late forties. He is balding and has a nice gut. I hit and "bounced" so hard that I was knocked unconscious. I felt like I had hit a brick wall.
My conclusion. I want to see this technique from a Kenpo perspective. I am almost positive that it's Repulse Monkey. And if that is the case, I can honestly say that it is nothing new. People have been practicing Repulse Monkey for hundreds of years. What it does show is that there is an incredible depth of MA technique and the moment we think we know something, there is always more we can learn.
Tai Chi and Kenpo
Unfortunately, there are no kenpo schools within a hundred miles of my home. But there is my tai chi teacher who is a direct student of T.T. Liang. It sounds like there is a lot of crossover. On an interesting side note, if you really learn tai chi push hands and not the push and shove chop socky stuff, you will learn how to articulate your body as described above IN MOTION and MOVE articulated so one is rooted and able to deliver power. A person can move around you and attack all they want and you will be able to neutralize their attacks and knock them over. Whether you strike or grapple, the end result is the same.
Very interesting stuff. My tai chi teacher can do these things. I am not so skilled, but would like to learn more...and Kenpo has now seriously sparked my interest.
upnorthkyosa
Regarding MMA...
Years ago before UFC, I trained in kickboxing and wrestling. We took each other down and practiced shooting regularly. It's always boggled my mind that so many MAists in North America didn't know how to defend against the shoot or even what they should do on the ground.
Anyway, what the UFC did is show that those techniques were important too. Before, fighters had huge gaps in their defenses...and a system arose to fill that gap. Now, pretty much everyone looks the same and there is nothing really innovative being done in the octagon anymore.
With that being said, the things that go on in the octagon are only the tip of the iceberg. I have had the priviledge of meeting and training with some masters that wouldn't set foot in that setting for various reasons (T.T Liang happened to be 80 years old when the UFC first came out). A lot of things they did and do have never been seen in the octagon and may never be...but they ARE still applicable in self defense situations...
This leads me to believe that what we see in MMA is not the pinnacle, but only the tip of the iceberg.
Regarding the index SL4 technique...
The technique described in beautiful detail sounded familiar to me. I have no kenpo experience (but after reading this thread, I wish to change that) so bare with me.
In Tai Chi Chuan there is a technique called Repulse Monkey. It sounds almost exactly like what was described. If you find a good teacher of Tai Chi (which is really difficult because of a proliferation of the hippy dippy tai cheese garbage out there) that person will describe Repulse Monkey in the same language that it was described and then that person will help articulate your body down to the minutae in order to get the desired effect.
The end result. My tai chi teacher asked me to shoot in on him as hard as I wanted to. I did so, full blast, from across the room, just as I did when I was in the ring. I have trained hard almost every day for 17 years. I lift weights, do cardio, regularly attend class, and practice on my own. My tai chi teacher is in his late forties. He is balding and has a nice gut. I hit and "bounced" so hard that I was knocked unconscious. I felt like I had hit a brick wall.
My conclusion. I want to see this technique from a Kenpo perspective. I am almost positive that it's Repulse Monkey. And if that is the case, I can honestly say that it is nothing new. People have been practicing Repulse Monkey for hundreds of years. What it does show is that there is an incredible depth of MA technique and the moment we think we know something, there is always more we can learn.
Tai Chi and Kenpo
Unfortunately, there are no kenpo schools within a hundred miles of my home. But there is my tai chi teacher who is a direct student of T.T. Liang. It sounds like there is a lot of crossover. On an interesting side note, if you really learn tai chi push hands and not the push and shove chop socky stuff, you will learn how to articulate your body as described above IN MOTION and MOVE articulated so one is rooted and able to deliver power. A person can move around you and attack all they want and you will be able to neutralize their attacks and knock them over. Whether you strike or grapple, the end result is the same.
Very interesting stuff. My tai chi teacher can do these things. I am not so skilled, but would like to learn more...and Kenpo has now seriously sparked my interest.
upnorthkyosa
and as you say an I opener for sure. I feel that what you learnt in that short space of time improved your whole kenpo and not just an individual technique.
