Bruises, Indexes, and Halting Grapplers

[Doc]

So, maybe "completing the circuit" is really a metaphor for something else (what Kenpodoc said). A vivid, useful metaphor, but still a metaphor. Am I on to something?

Because of the lack of precise codification during the development of significant scientific data hundreds of years ago, information was expressed physically to relay the information from teacher to student. Then, once the physical effect was felt, understood, and duplicatible by the student, it was assigned "flowery metaphorical language" that the recipient could use as a mental reference to the physical activity and its precise effects.

Thus phrases like, "sealing the breath" when associated with a physical effect meant "striking a certain place(s), a certain way, in a particular rhythm, to produce great pain, cause the diaphragm to spasm, ultimately making it very difficult to breathe." Thus many methods were created to cause this one effect, but they were all called "Sealing the Breath." The physical reference told which one would be effective for the circumstances at hand. Not very scientific, but when you're on the wrong end of it, you don't care. I think you've been there a couple of times. So when a method was also developed to counter that particular effect, it was called "Unsealing the Breath," or "Do this so your diaphragm will no longer spasm."

Mr. Parker incorporated this aspect of the Chinese method of teaching as he pushed for his "English Only" approach for his American Kenpo. (NOT to be confused with "Kenpo Karate" which was his first evolutionary version that utilized a healthy dose of Okinawan and Japanese Cultural vehicles and language upon his initial arrival to the mainland. Unfortunately Mr. Parker was "stuck" with thousands of patches that didn't reflect his own evolution).

Thus the self defense technique names and its many synonyms contained therein are a direct reflection of that methodology. i.e.. The original version of techniques like "Dance of Dance" reflected the takedown, turnover and stomping on and kicking of your attacker as if "dancing" on his downed body. Ultimately when the base techniques were shortened this movement was removed at the lower level only to reappear as an "extension" at green belt. Nevertheless, the technique was and is still "dance of Death."

You just got a good grade - now don't mess it up by not showing up.

 

[jonah2]

Sirs,

So – are you saying that correct physical alignment is one stage to gain anatomic alignment, but confirming this position to your sub-conscious will reinforce the situation thus giving concise anatomic alignment?

I’m glad that the electrical circuit thing was metaphoric – had a hard time with that. I’ll just accept the result rather than the confirmation of theory.

Thanks ‘Doc’ and ‘Kenpodoc’.

Jonah

 

[Doc]

Sirs,

So – are you saying that correct physical alignment is one stage to gain anatomic alignment, but confirming this position to your sub-conscious will reinforce the situation thus giving concise anatomic alignment?

I’m glad that the electrical circuit thing was metaphoric – had a hard time with that. I’ll just accept the result rather than the confirmation of theory.

Thanks ‘Doc’ and ‘Kenpodoc’.

Jonah

Think of this way; over your lifetime beginning when you first began to have control of your body, you have performed various tasks, and in that process created synaptic pathways to the brain that support these many physical activities. Most of them are actually unconciously engrained into your muscle memory. You body can work efficiently when your body "senses" the need to use or overcome resistance. Or inefficiently if you make a conscious decision to do something that contridicts sound body mechanics.

Most are "trained" into using poor body mechanics and in many cases have over-ridden and created "bad" synaptic pathways for inefficient and body damaging physical movement.

The human body is a great machine if you listen to it. Unfortunately for many, they have stop listening and retrained it so poorly, they can no longer "hear" what it is saying. You have forced yourself into "Disassociated Anatomical Movement."

In Martial Science, much like other sciences, there is a direct cause and effect to all activity. Martial Science draws on many different scientific disciplines, but all are in some way related to one another through the conduit of human anatomy. There exists a significant cause and effect interaction between all the many parts of human anatomy whether static or in motion. In any examination of the many martial postures and their transitions, the efficacy of its many positions are predicated upon, among many factors, weight distribution and an exacting posture relative to the physical activity at hand.

The relative position of the feet to each other, and their movement, also significantly determines whether structural integrity is created or maintained. Let’s discuss for a moment structural integrity in posture, movement, and weight distribution. Any variations in these categories beyond proper anatomical posture can diminish or enhance effectiveness on multiple levels offensively or defensively.

How you move your body in its entirety, and arms, feet, and even the head in particular, in martial science affects the stability of the complete body for a variety of reasons. For most this probably is not news. However what is probably “new” information to most is that some of the basic things taught in most “martial arts” fall quite comfortably into the negative and inefficient category. Surprisingly their effectiveness can be demonstrated to be much less than perceived. That is, when these things are tested in the light of reality, they fall well short of their well-intended goals. Lets us define efficiency relative to human physical activity in general, and martial science in particular.

Essentially, the “human” machine is a large gelatinous bag punctuated by multiple directionally dedicated and articulated appendages, connected by loose and flexible tissue. This semi solid shape is supported by an articulated and rigid substructure we call a “skeleton.” This necessary substructure skeleton, supports the human body as the primary load bearing entity, but also simultaneously provides it with mobility and maintains and sustains a general shape. It also supplies the major structural frame for anatomical rigidity on demand.

This relationship between the sub-structure frame, (skeleton) the connecting tissues, (ligaments, muscle, tendons), and the containment vessel epidermis (gelatinous bag) have a constant and perpetually active interaction relationship from one jiffy millisecond to the next. The “system software” or brain constantly monitors all external stimuli from thousands of body sensors and subsequently makes thousands of minute adjustments every millisecond to allow the machine on one level to function intuitively, and on another, to take directed commands from the central processing unit simultaneously.

By its very evolutionary design the human body unit operates in one of two non-destructive modes, either operating efficiently, or inefficiently. The inefficient mode I have termed “Disassociated Anatomical Movement.” In order to accomplish this, this extremely complex machine has an inherent ability to “disconnect” or create a more loose and flexible relationship between its many articulated parts, expressly for the purpose of performing movements and/or postures not necessarily anatomically structurally sound, but necessary for fluid human movement. Therefore by the very nature of the body, all movement is not necessarily effective, efficient, or even structurally sound, even though it may be performed quite easily. This is the reason humans do not move like “rigid” robots or automatons.

Most modern martial arts place a heavy emphasis on immediate satisfactory results and therefore are usually conceptually driven, allowing practitioners flexibility to achieve immediate short-term goals of questionable or elementary effectiveness. Unfortunately, these arts usually have levels of efficiency defined by some ranking process, and they include belts despite the lack of knowledge and quantifiable basic skills. Martial Arts clearly have taken on a business life of their own. A look in any martial arts magazine will yield pages of books and videos for those who believe they can actually learn this way and virtually teach themselves to mastery.

When any physical activity is taught with only an emphasis on conceptual movement or motion with no regard for anatomical structural requirements and physical mandates, than inefficient movement is the most likely results. The reason this can be confusing is because most martial “arts” instructors teach from this aesthetic perspective emphasizing the “look” over the proper anatomical “execution” to obtain the desired results.

A lack of knowledge has created a plethora of interpretations as numerous as there are “instructors.” Thus the western term “martial art” is indeed accurate because of this interpretive aesthetic perspective. Art, (in this instance artistic movement and postures) is clearly subjective, whereas martial science and its proper anatomical movement and postures are not. This explains why one “martial art” can have so many different interpretations from instructor to instructor, school to school, and even student to student.

This methodology is also inherent in cultural based martial discipline “do” (way) type “arts” that choose to emphasize a cultural and artistic methodology over an efficient anatomical results driven perspective. It is also an unintentional byproduct of modern eclectic commercial self-defense arts that lack sufficient foundation material beyond their conceptual design, as well. At least the traditional “way” arts emphasize consistency of movement and execution from student to student.

Oddly enough some of the most effective of these modern types “arts” are “stripped down” bare bones courses that at least allow participants to be “attacked” and retaliate against a person dressed in protective armor for a more realistic assessment of perceived skill development. This methodology also has the effect of introducing a level of “Adrenal Stress” to training that is also missing from most martial arts self-defense instruction.

Subsequently, training in improper movements like stepping backwards into any stance as an example, is an “inefficient” methodology that is readily revealed in realistic practice and application. Using this most basic of footwork to obtain a stance causes the body to go into its loose “disassociated“ mode to achieve the objective. The architectural human frame is designed to locomote forward partly deriving its balance from the swinging of the arm opposite the forward moving leg. Although the body can walk and move rearward, it does so inefficiently and in a definite disassociated mode. Even moving forward is essentially a "controlled fall."

As an example, when you walk backwards your arms do not swing naturally and balance is more difficult as a result. Additionally, moving forward aggressively without the ability to move your arms creates the same “disassociated” condition. The principle area affected in all of these situations begins with the “Primary Disconnect Mechanism,” the pelvic bone. The same holds true in any lateral movement as well.

However the converse of stepping backwards to meet resistance moving in the same direction as you’re stepping, is stepping forward when you are being pulled forward. Both of these movements are inefficient and must have correcting mechanisms to regain structural integrity.

Stepping rearward without the mechanism makes alignment impossible. Stepping forward however because the body functions to locomote forward naturally may create alignment, but only predicated on either how far or how many times you step, or if an additional correcting mechanism is involved.

Therefore to teach any execution that by necessity requires inefficient movement forward backward or laterally, first there must be recognition of these absolute anatomical facts, and second a mechanism must be designed to compensate, re-connect, or re-associate the body unit into singular structural integrity for efficient transference of power, or to resist body mass driven assaults. Additionally as previously stated, proper weight distribution and postures are also mandated based on anatomical parameters, and not aesthetics.

Other good examples can be found in various forms of footwork taught in most traditional and non-traditional arts alike. Lateral and forward movements where feet move toward one another create similar results of instability and structural disassociation as “stepping back.” Although all of these activities are a staple of most arts, anatomically speaking, such maneuvers lack structural stability, absent a compensating mechanism.

Let’s conduct an experiment to determine if you have the stability you think you have:

Beginning with feet even, step back and settle into your strongest “fighting stance and posture,” making yourself as stable as possible. Have someone slowly push on your shoulders from the front toward the rear or 6:00 (Presumably the direction with the most stability) to simulate a bodily assault or grapple attack to the upper torso from the front.

You'll notice that the top part of your body is easily pushed backwards until the angle is extreme enough to cause the front foot to lift from the floor, and subsequently the rear foot will be forced to adjust backwards to retain balance. The torso seems to be “disconnected” from the feet and lower part of the anatomy. The feet only remain in place until the torso is moved sufficiently to pull the feet from their position. This is why “street grapplers” entertain a measure of success against those unprepared or unknowledgeable. Most are always taught to “step back” in preparation to defend themselves, and without the requisite skills to counter our own inefficient body mechanics our chances of success are diminished significantly.

What has happened is the step rearward has created the “Disassociated Anatomical Condition,” at the hips separating the lower platform (hips to the floor) from the upper (Hips to the shoulders) platform, causing them to work semi independently of each other with no shared structural integrity. Thus there is no significant stability to counter any realistic physical pressure from any angle, and specifically from the front.

This relationship of the hips to the rest of the body can be explored in another simple observation. When walking in a normal manner, if a decision is made to change the gait or stride significantly, before one can jog or run, a “skipping action” must be made to change the relationship of the hips to the torso. This is done naturally without conscious thought but never the less it must be done to run efficiently. This action is termed a “Platform Aligning Skip.”

In SubLevel Four Kenpo™ we teach a variety of mechanisms to counter every Disassociated Anatomical Movement we may be forced, by necessity to perform. These mechanisms are known as PAM’s, (Platform Aligning Mechanisms), and/or BAM’s (Body Alignment Mechanisms), and PAS for Platform Aligning Skip. Because of their variety and complexity, they are explored in detail in the physical curriculum and are taught situationally within the context of specific self-defense techniques.

The important thing to remember is that all rules of martial science are specific, and therefore apply to specific circumstances. Any variation of any portion of the body, no matter how minute, may cause a complete breakdown of structural integrity, as well as other anatomical properties for later discussion. This means all methodologies have “correcting mechanisms” to compensate for inefficient movement or improper posture.

In martial science posture, there are rules relative to weight distribution. As an example, whenever the feet are parallel, weight distribution (absent a correcting mechanism) must be 50/50. This is the over riding base for the beginning of understanding correct postures and corresponds with the traditional “horse” stance found in most arts for a reason. However, that is not all. The position and manner of the hands, wrists, head, shoulders, fingers, muscle tension, etc. in addition to weight distribution will ultimately determine whether you are correct structurally or not.

 

[howardr]

In SubLevel Four Kenpo™ we teach a variety of mechanisms to counter every Disassociated Anatomical Movement we may be forced, by necessity to perform. These mechanisms are known as PAM’s, (Platform Aligning Mechanisms), and/or BAM’s (Body Alignment Mechanisms), and PAS for Platform Aligning Skip. Because of their variety and complexity, they are explored in detail in the physical curriculum and are taught situationally within the context of specific self-defense techniques.

Dr. Chapel hass described these mechanisms as complex. In case some might interpret that to mean they aren't practical, I'd like to offer my experience and understanding.

1. They are complex in that they are sophisticated. They're not complex in the sense of not being usable in realtime under stress. I.e., they can fairly quickly become subconscious. Once you've been using them for a while they will feel natural and you won't have any inclination to not use them.

2. They are complex in the sense that are difficult, if not impossible, to learn via the written word. What you need is somebody who already knows how to use them properly, to show you how hands-on, make corrections, and test their efficacy against resistance. Testing of the mechanisms will get you to understand exactly what the mechanism should feel like when properly applied. At first, you may think that you've done it properly only to find out when tested that you were off here or there. Adjustments are made and testing is repeated until it works and you know what it should feel like when it works.

3. Many of the mechanisms are difficult to "see" when observing practitioners. Even though I've been studying under Dr. Chapel for about three years, and generally know what to look for, it is often hard to see someone employing the mechanisms. But, oh boy, is there a big difference when they do!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This relationship between the sub-structure frame, (skeleton) the connecting tissues, (ligaments, muscle, tendons), and the containment vessel epidermis (gelatinous bag) have a constant and perpetually active interaction relationship from one jiffy millisecond to the next. The “system software” or brain constantly monitors all external stimuli from thousands of body sensors and subsequently makes thousands of minute adjustments every millisecond to allow the machine on one level to function intuitively, and on another, to take directed commands from the central processing unit simultaneously.

Dang, Doc. How long did you spend working on this one? I can tell by the hour of publish, you should have been sleeping. But thanks: I'm richer for it.

As for the part I have emboldened, these communications take place over very complex electro-chemical pathways. The body is an electric structure. I'm sorry of Jonah has a tough time with the Body-Electric concept, but again, I deal with it all day long. I can place an electric or magnetic device (i.e., a cell phone) on a patient, and test their ability to resist pressure against a muscle, just to see the muscle cave in response to the presence of the electric device. I can then aim a cold laser at them for just a few seconds, then re-test to see that the bodies ability to maintain integrity has been restored substantially & demonstrably. Not magic. Not science fiction. Not hypnotism. The body is an electric field, sustained around a central, organizing axis. Disruptions in the integrity of that field cause weakness. Reorganizations and entrainment of the information resident in that field cause strength. Basic physics: We are more space than solid (quite a bit so), and the energies containing the billions of minature spinning solar systems that make up our atoms in our bodies can be empowered or weakened by the information we provide them.

Not liking it doesn't mean we can't use it.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

As promised, I am getting back to you on the braced supportive structure created by indexing.

I have a fairly skilled BJJ submission guy in the school who I worked with a couple of nights this week, he is increadibly fast, not heavier than me however. He did not think it would work, but in my application of it, I was able to ward off his attacks moderatly well and knew it would work equally well against a heavier grappler. I used the vertical application whenever he attempted to shoot at my legs, and pivoted up the circle with my forarm (ulna side) between his neck and shoulder. Sweet! It really dropped him when I went for the pressure points in the neck, or rolled to the ones at the base of the occipital.

I know it could be overcome eventually, especially in the context of training where they are expecting this, but that is not the scenario I train for. But it is a nice initial response to the moderatly trained grappler in some contexts. The guy who shoots low for the leg only, and is on his knees or belly already, is a different scenario, but if you have an similar mass, you could sprawl back with this and ride him down if you understand how.

Interesting to say the least. Thanks and Kudos for the work typing in the explanation.

Left over Right
-Michael

Thank you for having the open-mindedness necessary to explore and investigate; to suspend judgement during discovery. My suspicion about the complexity of the human animal in motion is that any technique can be overcome eventually. How often will you ever need to? In BJJ, I learned some really great counters to things like scarfholds, reverse scarfholds, triangle chokes, mounted triangles, crucifix, key-locks, and so on. Yet, aside from while rolling with other jits players, I've never had to know how to escape a figure-4 ankle lock. I have, on the other hand, had to stave off the advances of aggressive opponents on many occasions. High utilization factor for a sophisticated basic.

Regards,

D.

 

[Bode]

Dang, Doc. How long did you spend working on this one?

The question is really when did he write it... could have been five years ago, but applicable for the thread. (I'd be willing to bet).

I can tell by the hour of publish, you should have been sleeping.

I'm not sure he does sleep.

But seriously. Some great discussion in this thread. Thanks to the very serious and open minded martial artists.

 

[jonah2]

‘Kembudo-kia Kempoka’ wrote:
“…I'm sorry of Jonah has a tough time with the Body-Electric concept…”

I don’t have a hard time with the reality of electrical basics of the body. I don’t claim to understand it fully but grasp some theory. The hard time I was having is the ‘completion of a circuit’ by touching the finger to the head. However, the metaphor discussion helped my mindset.

I agree with you that the disruption of the body’s fields will have effects. In the examples you gave above the disruptions and enhancements to integrity were induced by external electrical or magnetic stimuli. What I was trying to grasp was can this type of electrical integrity be enhanced by simple posture or connection of one body part to another with no external stimuli.

As ‘Doc’ has said here and on another thread, its best to know the ‘how’ first, not necessarily the ‘why’ at this stage. A statement I accept. But like ‘Kenpo doc’, the word “why” has been a big part of my life, and I can’t help it. As long as the why doesn’t get in the way of the physical how then I don’t see the problem with intense curiosity. I just want to fill my cup.

Respect to all contributing here. I’m enjoying the discussion

Jonah

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I've been getting a kick out fo "cold laser" medicine, particularly because no one really knows for sure how or why it works. There are some great theories; some very high-fallutin' ideas as to what it does at cellular & atomic levels. But the reality is we juct don't know. But researcher are doing some funky thins with them that show they are more than just fancy flashlights, when used at certain nanometer frequencies. A buddy of mine is the regional distributor for the 2nd or 3rd to clear FDA approval; his crib had been looking into cosmetic uses...melting fat. Literally. They train one of these on the chubby part of a pig; at a certain freq for a given period of time, and about ten pounds of fat melt off all at once.

Think the bo-tox crowd wouldn't like to use this? Unapproved application, though, since the net effect on health of ten pounds of liquefied bodyfat hitting the bloodstream all at once has not been researched enough to identify the liabilities, predictably. I work near Newport Beach, CA...one of the tupperware titty capitals of the world. It would go up like hotcakes.

Anyway, my point is not to market someone elses invention. My point is that there are lots of great and amazing things out there, that we have no idea as to how or why they work. There is something about the body maintaining congruence via the act of touching itself, noted in many SL-4 basics. In my own pea little brain, I actually suspect it has much to do with maintaining communication with the quantum coherence of the human form, but that's my own "off the deep end" personal take on it, recently solidified by the clinical uses of cold laser I've been witnessing in my office. Things like 25-50% increases in muscle strength and voluntary range of motion in the paretic extremities of MS patients, brain stem injury patients, and nerve regeneration in the distal extremities of patients with diabetic peripheral polyneuropathy..after, like, 30 seconds to a minute of this thing. I can't, despite all the guess-work theorizing out there about how or why the laser works, tell you what's happenning to these people. But, when we send them back to their MD's, neuro's, etc., for follow-up eval, we get letters from the Docs saying, "frigging amazing...whatever you're doing, keep it up". The cold laser only makes sense to me as an electrical entrainment device, raising the energetic levels of the electrons in atomic orbit in the substance of which we are made. Am I right? I doubt it. I'm one mind in a field of better minds than mine trying to figure out the mechanism of action. That's my best attempt at figgurin' a non-froo explanation of how the damn thing works, and it still seems like a froo, untestable reach. But the in vitro and in vivo experimentation shows us something is definitely happening.

Me thinks SL-4 is on a similar page. I think I've swagged a pretty good "why", which, if I'm even close to correct, will help me tinker in years to come. Even if I'm wrong, it still gives me a weak "something" to hang my hat on while I practice the "how", and I like having hat hangars.

Regards,

D.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

hey dr dave and doc,
just a comment on this whole scenario (which by the way im a total believer in), i think that there may be a few explanations for this. completeing the circuit as dr dave points out is not so far out as some people might think it is, also the bodies mechanism of proprioception comes into play. if we take the arm touching the back of the head for example. proprioception is the bodies way of keeping track of all its parts in relation to itself and to outside stimuli (just some background for those who dont know what it does or is). with little conscious effort an ordinary person is able to move their bodies around and know where the various parts of their body are in relation to their other parts and also within their surrounding environment. you could describe proprioception as a sixth sense in a certain way. it receives stimuli and makes minute adjustments to other receptors in the body which in turn control balance and movement. this allows our bodies to move a precise angles and alignments. it also allows martial artists to move with the speed and precision needed to execute fast snapping punches and kicks. i know the bizz word for years to describe this is muscle memory, but my belief is, the practicing martial artist has built up and has more understanding, or shall we say awareness of his or her particular proprioception.
if we were to take a detective and give him one piece of information to solve a case, it will take him longer to solve it than it would if we gave him 500 pieces of information to solve the same case. the same with the human body, the more information it has, the easier it is for it to deal with its surrounding environment. if you take the elbow and raise it by itself, the mechanism of proprioception goes to work to stabilize the arm and give it the necessary strength needed for the movement. the body does not yet know that the elbow might meet force, so it has not made the proper adjustments in alignment to support it. by touching the side of the head, you have made another connection that the body can utilize to make even more precise alignments to add strength and stability to motion.
by using and understanding these little tricks and making them concious, you have given your detective (brain) more information to solve the case.

 

[Mark L]

Really interesting! A few questions ...

However the converse of stepping backwards to meet resistance moving in the same direction as you’re stepping, is stepping forward when you are being pulled forward. Both of these movements are inefficient and must have correcting mechanisms to regain structural integrity.

Stepping rearward without the mechanism makes alignment impossible. Stepping forward however because the body functions to locomote forward naturally may create alignment, but only predicated on either how far or how many times you step, or if an additional correcting mechanism is involved.

Any thoughts on whether a literal step (one foot losing contact with the floor) causes the disassociation or is the act of moving the whole body. My style teaches us to maintain contact with the floor, sliding the feet as we move (half-mooning).

An earlier post talked about moving into a neutral bow and stomping the forward heel to counter the DAM, I'll try this out when I have partner.

Therefore to teach any execution that by necessity requires inefficient movement forward backward or laterally, first there must be recognition of these absolute anatomical facts, and second a mechanism must be designed to compensate, re-connect, or re-associate the body unit into singular structural integrity for efficient transference of power, or to resist body mass driven assaults. Additionally as previously stated, proper weight distribution and postures are also mandated based on anatomical parameters, and not aesthetics.


In SubLevel Four Kenpo™ we teach a variety of mechanisms to counter every Disassociated Anatomical Movement we may be forced, by necessity to perform. These mechanisms are known as PAM’s, (Platform Aligning Mechanisms), and/or BAM’s (Body Alignment Mechanisms), and PAS for Platform Aligning Skip. Because of their variety and complexity, they are explored in detail in the physical curriculum and are taught situationally within the context of specific self-defense techniques.

Can you give some examples of PAM's, BAM's, and PAS's that might allow those of us without access to an SL4 practioner to experience the phenomenon? I realize this is a lousy medium for such an attempt, and that hands-on is theway. But, there are several here who have demonstrated superior skill wielding the written word.

 

[Doc]

Really interesting! A few questions ...
Any thoughts on whether a literal step (one foot losing contact with the floor) causes the disassociation or is the act of moving the whole body. My style teaches us to maintain contact with the floor, sliding the feet as we move (half-mooning).

Not good creating the reisistance while moving the foot in some circumstances, and the old "half moon" method is even worse. Anytime you move the feet toward each other you are not perfoming footwork conducive to forward or rear locomotion.

Can you give some examples of PAM's, BAM's, and PAS's that might allow those of us without access to an SL4 practioner to experience the phenomenon?

A simple example of a BAM:
Stand in a horse
look to your right
execute an outward elbow to your right.
Have someone push against the elbow to check its structure.
It will collaspe. This is what most strike with.
Next before the elbow
"Slap" the forward portion of your shoulder
than execute the elbow
re-test for strength and structure.

The reason this is so difficult is because of the infinite combinations and variations of the many parts of human anatomy relative to each other. This is the real meaning of "INFINITE." Therefore the answer to any question is always "it depends." This information is not extrapolatable to other activities. EVERYTHING is activity dedicated and must be SPECIFICALLY mapped to the activity. Further EVERY aspect of your human posture can and will effect structure. The movement of a finger can destroy whole body structure. The knowledge is not "general."

This is the best I or any of my students can do on the net. Sorry.

 

[Doc]

hey dr dave and doc,
just a comment on this whole scenario (which by the way im a total believer in), i think that there may be a few explanations for this. completeing the circuit as dr dave points out is not so far out as some people might think it is, also the bodies mechanism of proprioception comes into play. if we take the arm touching the back of the head for example. proprioception is the bodies way of keeping track of all its parts in relation to itself and to outside stimuli (just some background for those who dont know what it does or is). with little conscious effort an ordinary person is able to move their bodies around and know where the various parts of their body are in relation to their other parts and also within their surrounding environment. you could describe proprioception as a sixth sense in a certain way. it receives stimuli and makes minute adjustments to other receptors in the body which in turn control balance and movement. this allows our bodies to move a precise angles and alignments. it also allows martial artists to move with the speed and precision needed to execute fast snapping punches and kicks. i know the bizz word for years to describe this is muscle memory, but my belief is, the practicing martial artist has built up and has more understanding, or shall we say awareness of his or her particular proprioception.
if we were to take a detective and give him one piece of information to solve a case, it will take him longer to solve it than it would if we gave him 500 pieces of information to solve the same case. the same with the human body, the more information it has, the easier it is for it to deal with its surrounding environment. if you take the elbow and raise it by itself, the mechanism of proprioception goes to work to stabilize the arm and give it the necessary strength needed for the movement. the body does not yet know that the elbow might meet force, so it has not made the proper adjustments in alignment to support it. by touching the side of the head, you have made another connection that the body can utilize to make even more precise alignments to add strength and stability to motion.
by using and understanding these little tricks and making them concious, you have given your detective (brain) more information to solve the case.

You're on the money that proprioception is one of the components. The complexity is such that every activity (read technique, form, etc) must be "mapped" by someone who understands the totality of all the mechanisms, and can articulate and codify the info into a workable format as part of the teaching process in a progressive curriculum. Students must accept that "why" it works isn't always available information at a time when one should be trying to learn to use the mechanisms on the fly and not get punched in the grill.

 

[Mark L]

Doc,
Thanks for taking time to help me understand ...

The movement of a finger can destroy whole body structure. The knowledge is not "general."

This is the best I or any of my students can do on the net. Sorry.

No apologies necessary, it's what I expected. I'm just interested in feeling what you're talking about. I'll be at the dojo in the morning to work your example!

Since the knowledge is not general, I'll assume (as dangerous as that may be) that you have to teach the student the appropriate response to a myriad of situations. I'm struggling with, but not rejecting, the notion that a finger position, or anything else so minute on the surface, matters. That's why I want to feel it.

Do you build up a repertoire of conditioned responses to deal with some subset of the infinite possibilites? Do you find that your teachings, after a time, equip your students with the ability to respond appropriately without having been explicity taught a specific action-reaction relationship? Akin to 'generalizing' the knowledge.

 

[Doc]

Doc,
Thanks for taking time to help me understand ...



No apologies necessary, it's what I expected. I'm just interested in feeling what you're talking about. I'll be at the dojo in the morning to work your example!

Since the knowledge is not general, I'll assume (as dangerous as that may be) that you have to teach the student the appropriate response to a myriad of situations. I'm struggling with, but not rejecting, the notion that a finger position, or anything else so minute on the surface, matters. That's why I want to feel it.

I understand. Even when I meet people and let them physically experience it for themselves they are surprised, and usually respond with, "Wait, do that again!" They are even more impressed when I poke them lightly on a part of their body with no effect, and then alter their posture and do the same spot and they begin dancing.

Do you build up a repertoire of conditioned responses to deal with some subset of the infinite possibilites? Do you find that your teachings, after a time, equip your students with the ability to respond appropriately without having been explicity taught a specific action-reaction relationship? Akin to 'generalizing' the knowledge.

Because the information cannot be generalized with simple conceptual "rules," the technique scenarios emcompass the principles and teach automatic responses contextually, and students perform very well in real life circumstances. As an example, each BAM is mapped into the technique application with the proper timing and breathing signature. In the beginning it appears a bit stacatto, but quickly becomes very functional. Most of what is learned the body readilly accepts once all the bad "learned" body mechanics are overriden.

 

[Bode]

They are even more impressed when I poke them lightly on a part of their body with no effect, and then alter their posture and do the same spot and they begin dancing.

I dance all the time. As a matter of fact, just last night I danced straight to the floor.

In all seriousness, Doc has a class full of skeptics. Smart people who have never, ever been the type to bow down and say, "He said it so it must be true." I don't even believe Doc on some nights, but, and I emphasize, he expects that from us! More importantly, Doc requires us to test his concepts on another person, believer or non. Believing someone solely on the basis of rank is liable to get you killed.

 

[Doc]

I dance all the time. As a matter of fact, just last night I danced straight to the floor.

In all seriousness, Doc has a class full of skeptics. Smart people who have never, ever been the type to bow down and say, "He said it so it must be true." I don't even believe Doc on some nights, but, and I emphasize, he expects that from us! More importantly, Doc requires us to test his concepts on another person, believer or non. Believing someone solely on the basis of rank is liable to get you killed.

That is correct. as you know I encourage skepticism, and that why we have the "challenge." Any student regardless of rank can at anytime challenge whether something works as taught no matter who says it, including me. It engenders trust when students are allowed to prove principles to themselves and each other. It gives me a chance to rest.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think doc's classes sound like they would be a lot of fun........very experimental

 

[SION]

As one who has been there I would encourage anyone to go, as there is a lot of knowledge given out during the class, not only by Doc but the majority of his students. It is certainly fun!!

just one thing go with an open mind and you are sure to come away with more knowledge than you went with.



KJM

 

[Brother John]

That is correct. as you know I encourage skepticism, and that why we have the "challenge." Any student regardless of rank can at anytime challenge whether something works as taught no matter who says it, including me. It engenders trust when students are allowed to prove principles to themselves and each other. It gives me a chance to rest.

Personally, I'd only like to CHALLENGE you to a good game of Chess.
That's about it.

(I'd wooop ya...)

Your Brother
John