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SRyuFighter
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- #21
Well said yilisifu he was not the greatest. He was another fighter who made average movies that were skyrocketed because he died. Sad but true.
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yilisifu
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- #22
Yes, it's sad but true. Without Ed Parker's help, Lee never would have made it into the television and then the movie industry. The martial arts media were also very instrumental in skyrocketing him to fame although they helped add to misunderstanding much of what he said and did.
Akja - Bruce learned Wing Chun's first two forms; not just the first one. You're mistaken.
The movie about his life story (endorsed by Linda Lee) is mostly hogwash. Lee injured his back by doing deadlifts incorrectly; not in a glorious fight with another kung-fu practicioner...
So much time has passed since his death that now there are a lot of fables and myths surrounding him.
Akja - Bruce learned Wing Chun's first two forms; not just the first one. You're mistaken.
The movie about his life story (endorsed by Linda Lee) is mostly hogwash. Lee injured his back by doing deadlifts incorrectly; not in a glorious fight with another kung-fu practicioner...
So much time has passed since his death that now there are a lot of fables and myths surrounding him.
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SRyuFighter
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- #23
Very good. Your right about all of the myths, a friend of mine think's bruce is the best of all time. I personally find that idea ridiculous.
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yilisifu
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- #24
I'm old enough to remember Bruce Lee. He was a bright fellow with a lot of natural ability. He was a grade B actor, had a poor attitude and hated to teach people who didn't understand martial arts movements as easily as he did (in fact, this is one of the major areas of difference he had with Mr. Parker).
He had an enormous ego (made worse by all the martial arts media fanfare), liked to chew cannibis, and cheated on his wife...
He loved his son, revered his parents, and always had the greatest respect for his primary teacher (Yip Man)...although Bill Cheung actually taught him most of the time.
He was not a god, he was not unbeatable, and he never entered competition because he said he was "too highly skilled" to do so. That kind of comment always makes me wonder.
He was an avid reader with a BA in philosophy and the book, Tao of Jeet Kune Do is actually compiled of notes which he discarded while doing research. Seems someone figured out how to make some bucks after his death.
He had an enormous ego (made worse by all the martial arts media fanfare), liked to chew cannibis, and cheated on his wife...
He loved his son, revered his parents, and always had the greatest respect for his primary teacher (Yip Man)...although Bill Cheung actually taught him most of the time.
He was not a god, he was not unbeatable, and he never entered competition because he said he was "too highly skilled" to do so. That kind of comment always makes me wonder.
He was an avid reader with a BA in philosophy and the book, Tao of Jeet Kune Do is actually compiled of notes which he discarded while doing research. Seems someone figured out how to make some bucks after his death.
:asian:
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yilisifu
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- #27
The teacher who possesses them will not make them public; he's not that kind of person. He's a true gentleman who has no interest in bashing anyone's memory....but he really DOES have the photos. He's a very well known teacher; one of the best known in the U.S. and he has made it a point to avoid politics and all the rest of it...and done a fine job.
yilisifu,
You might be right about the second form but he only taught the first form in Seattle.
Second, Bruce would never pull his punches for a point tourney, he was at the beginning of his "self realization" of what worked and what didn't, you could not expect him to enter a fake competition and I never said he was the greatest and the movie industry in America didn't accept him until he was already a star making movies in Hong Kong which had nothing to do with Ed Parker.
The information I got was from someone who knew him, trained by him and trained privately by him.
I understand "INTEGRITY" but you can't use that as an excuse to not reveal your source!!! You open up the door, "QUOTING HIM," and BASING ALL OF YOUR FACTS ON HIS TRUTHFUL WORD!!!! WHO IS HE!!! The info. you appear to have is talk about if you want to see the pictures you have to travel to go and see them. YOUR FACTS ARE NOT FACTUAL AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
Whoever reads this is going to believe whatever they want anyway, so it dosen't really matter. But you shouldn't trash someone thats dead and who helped expose Americas eyes to Gung-Fu and helped start a flourishing martial art buisness that has boomed ever since.
You might be right about the second form but he only taught the first form in Seattle.
Second, Bruce would never pull his punches for a point tourney, he was at the beginning of his "self realization" of what worked and what didn't, you could not expect him to enter a fake competition and I never said he was the greatest and the movie industry in America didn't accept him until he was already a star making movies in Hong Kong which had nothing to do with Ed Parker.
The information I got was from someone who knew him, trained by him and trained privately by him.
I understand "INTEGRITY" but you can't use that as an excuse to not reveal your source!!! You open up the door, "QUOTING HIM," and BASING ALL OF YOUR FACTS ON HIS TRUTHFUL WORD!!!! WHO IS HE!!! The info. you appear to have is talk about if you want to see the pictures you have to travel to go and see them. YOUR FACTS ARE NOT FACTUAL AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
Whoever reads this is going to believe whatever they want anyway, so it dosen't really matter. But you shouldn't trash someone thats dead and who helped expose Americas eyes to Gung-Fu and helped start a flourishing martial art buisness that has boomed ever since.
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yilisifu
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- #29
Akja, calm down, son...I'm not trashing Bruce Lee. I'm simply telling the truth. If that hurts, I'm sorry. My facts ARE factual. And integrity is a great "excuse" for not revealing my sources. They do not wish to be made public and I respect their wishes.
I will not reveal my sources. End of that part of the statement.
Ed Parker was responsible for Lee getting into a television series which ultimately led to him getting into the Hong Kong movie industry. Without having had the prior TV experience and notoriety, I doubt that Run Run Shaw would have ever cast a second glance his way. Yes, I believe that Mr. Parker is indirectly responsible for Lee's entry into the Hong Kong movie industry.
Lee did absolutely nothing to encourage the growth of the martial arts industry here or anywhere else. He never held any competitive events, never conducted seminars of any kind (in fact, his private lessons ran over $80 per lesson which, in those days, was a LOT of money), only wrote a short book and a small pamphlet (most people know about the book but I have an original copy of the pamphlet).
Once he made it into the movies, he did not maintain his school (he was rarely there as an instructor) although some of his students did open clubs of their own.
He was one of the first kung-fu practicioners to perform before the American public and that's part of what made him famous. However, there were numerous other teachers (who were older and not as handsome as Lee) who did the same thing; Timmy Wong, Arthur Lee, Ark Wong, and others. They never made it big on TV or in themovies so they're not as famous.
I believe that the reason Lee did not compete is that he had everything to lose and nothing to win.
If he won, people would say, Oh well, he's the famous Bruce Lee. Of course he won!"
On the other hand, if he lost, he'd lose everything...especially his reputation.
I don't hold with the "self realization" line about what works and what doesn't.....I have known and trained with some of the finest karate masters and kung-fu teachers in the world. In the blink of an eye they could dispatch an opponent with ease. Yet, they also are skilled enough to pull their blows for the sake of safety when practicing. I don't understand why Lee could not have done the same thing.
No, I think he did the wisest thing. He simply didn't compete at all. It was the smartest move.
My point is simply that there are a lot of myths flying around regarding Bruce Lee. I simply wish to set the record straight, as I would about any well-known martial arts practicioner. Sometimes, when myths are shown for what they really are, it makes us uncomfortable, but that's part of the learning and maturing process.
:asian:
I will not reveal my sources. End of that part of the statement.
Ed Parker was responsible for Lee getting into a television series which ultimately led to him getting into the Hong Kong movie industry. Without having had the prior TV experience and notoriety, I doubt that Run Run Shaw would have ever cast a second glance his way. Yes, I believe that Mr. Parker is indirectly responsible for Lee's entry into the Hong Kong movie industry.
Lee did absolutely nothing to encourage the growth of the martial arts industry here or anywhere else. He never held any competitive events, never conducted seminars of any kind (in fact, his private lessons ran over $80 per lesson which, in those days, was a LOT of money), only wrote a short book and a small pamphlet (most people know about the book but I have an original copy of the pamphlet).
Once he made it into the movies, he did not maintain his school (he was rarely there as an instructor) although some of his students did open clubs of their own.
He was one of the first kung-fu practicioners to perform before the American public and that's part of what made him famous. However, there were numerous other teachers (who were older and not as handsome as Lee) who did the same thing; Timmy Wong, Arthur Lee, Ark Wong, and others. They never made it big on TV or in themovies so they're not as famous.
I believe that the reason Lee did not compete is that he had everything to lose and nothing to win.
If he won, people would say, Oh well, he's the famous Bruce Lee. Of course he won!"
On the other hand, if he lost, he'd lose everything...especially his reputation.
I don't hold with the "self realization" line about what works and what doesn't.....I have known and trained with some of the finest karate masters and kung-fu teachers in the world. In the blink of an eye they could dispatch an opponent with ease. Yet, they also are skilled enough to pull their blows for the sake of safety when practicing. I don't understand why Lee could not have done the same thing.
No, I think he did the wisest thing. He simply didn't compete at all. It was the smartest move.
My point is simply that there are a lot of myths flying around regarding Bruce Lee. I simply wish to set the record straight, as I would about any well-known martial arts practicioner. Sometimes, when myths are shown for what they really are, it makes us uncomfortable, but that's part of the learning and maturing process.
:asian:
In this last post you came across as a "mature" martial artist, I did'nt see that in your other posts. I saw someone trashing my Sigungs Sifu.
Your right about "integrety" but so am I. Technically you did open the door but offered no actual proof accept a mans word. These people are just men, like Bruce and you and I. The pics aren't proof without authentication especially with todays technology.
We are all allowed to have our beliefs of what is true and what is not true but no matter what is said there are many more Gung-Fu men of that time who were "actually around Bruce" enough to know how well he performed and how he rated as a martial artist and the truth about the things that happened during his lifetime!!
Although I do know someone who was there. I wasn't there!
Your right about "integrety" but so am I. Technically you did open the door but offered no actual proof accept a mans word. These people are just men, like Bruce and you and I. The pics aren't proof without authentication especially with todays technology.
We are all allowed to have our beliefs of what is true and what is not true but no matter what is said there are many more Gung-Fu men of that time who were "actually around Bruce" enough to know how well he performed and how he rated as a martial artist and the truth about the things that happened during his lifetime!!
Although I do know someone who was there. I wasn't there!
Actually, Lee had been involved in the Hong Kong movie industry since he was a baby, having various acting jobs up until he was 18. He was a moderately well-known child actor before he left for the U.S.
Cthulhu
Cthulhu
To put things in perspective...
If I said I've seen video of a Tai Chi master splitting an engine block with his pinky-toe, but the unnamed person who owned the video wouldn't share it unless you travelled to an undisclosed location, you'd all think I was full of dookie.
Without knowing the names of the people in the Uechi group, and not being able to see these images for ourselves without risking financial expenses to go someplace (which we can't do because a place or name hasn't been given), of course people will be skeptical.
I am not discounting your claim, merely explaining why others would naturally have some doubts.
:asian:
Cthulhu
If I said I've seen video of a Tai Chi master splitting an engine block with his pinky-toe, but the unnamed person who owned the video wouldn't share it unless you travelled to an undisclosed location, you'd all think I was full of dookie.
Without knowing the names of the people in the Uechi group, and not being able to see these images for ourselves without risking financial expenses to go someplace (which we can't do because a place or name hasn't been given), of course people will be skeptical.
I am not discounting your claim, merely explaining why others would naturally have some doubts.
:asian:
Cthulhu
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yilisifu
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- #34
I understand and respect that. But I cannot break my pledge to my friends, either.
Thanks for listening, anyway.
Thanks for listening, anyway.
Bruce Always Gave to M.A. & He is
The Reason Many Even Do M.A.
Y Would This So Called Master Show U These Photos
& No One else?/. Oh Yeah U Said He Would show any one
Who Wish To See???
Bruce Lee WaZ & always will Be a Great Martial Artist.
The Reason Many Even Do M.A.
Y Would This So Called Master Show U These Photos
& No One else?/. Oh Yeah U Said He Would show any one
Who Wish To See???
Bruce Lee WaZ & always will Be a Great Martial Artist.
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
On another forum of Lee being beat in point sparring while in Pasedena. The sources are credible and I have little reason to belive it.
IMO Lee is not the god many make him out to be. He was human. He didn't have the best technique, he wasn't the fastest (There's always someone faster) and watching his movies today you can see flaws. Depending on where you take your martial arts and why, his book series comes off as arrogent and not that helpful. I've heard when you go into Hollywood you need to make a decision, you can be a Martial Artist or an Actor, but not both. Again IMO Lee is a spot on the blotter of the world of martial arts, a noticible spot, but nothing more. And he's dead.
IMO Lee is not the god many make him out to be. He was human. He didn't have the best technique, he wasn't the fastest (There's always someone faster) and watching his movies today you can see flaws. Depending on where you take your martial arts and why, his book series comes off as arrogent and not that helpful. I've heard when you go into Hollywood you need to make a decision, you can be a Martial Artist or an Actor, but not both. Again IMO Lee is a spot on the blotter of the world of martial arts, a noticible spot, but nothing more. And he's dead.
Johnathan Napalm
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IMO, you should reread his books again before making ridiculous comment.
Bruce Lee changed the martial art world and openned it to the Western world. His concepts in cross training are universally accepted and adopted across most schools.
Bruce Lee broke the tradition and was certainly one of the greatest martial artists of all time. His training concepts are applicable across all styles and disciplines. Some people say his techniques sucked. So what? He could hit faster and harder.
Bruce Lee changed the martial art world and openned it to the Western world. His concepts in cross training are universally accepted and adopted across most schools.
Bruce Lee broke the tradition and was certainly one of the greatest martial artists of all time. His training concepts are applicable across all styles and disciplines. Some people say his techniques sucked. So what? He could hit faster and harder.
Johnathan Napalm
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Picture or no picture, no reasonable person would believe that any person invincible. People may pick fights or competitions carefully to manage an undefeated record. That is just good career management.
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sweeper
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- #40
"his book series comes off as arrogent and not that helpful"
I wasn't aware of a book series, I knew he published one book in the 60s but all the others came out after his death, most of the info was from his notes from when he was injured in 1970. Alot of it was "out dated" by the time he died. But also I would point out again most of the info wasn't realy intended to go into a book but were realy his study notes.
And I tihnk his mother was 1/2 or 1/4 german.
I wasn't aware of a book series, I knew he published one book in the 60s but all the others came out after his death, most of the info was from his notes from when he was injured in 1970. Alot of it was "out dated" by the time he died. But also I would point out again most of the info wasn't realy intended to go into a book but were realy his study notes.
And I tihnk his mother was 1/2 or 1/4 german.
