Archangel M
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,555
- Reaction score
- 154
Brit Boy Scouts cant have pocket knives
- Thread starter Archangel M
- Start date
girlbug2
Master of Arts
I was never a Scout, but it seems to me that pocket knives would come in handy in a variety of wilderness situations. Isn't the idea of Scouts that you teach the kids some survival skills for the wilderness?
Omar B
Senior Master
I joined the scouts pretty much because I could get a knife from my dad. This is crazy.
grydth
Senior Master
On the one hand, it is their own country and their own scouting program, to do with as they see fit.
But the USA is our country, and we need to guard against those far lefties, enamored of all things European, who would seek impose these things upon us.
Okay for them; just plain silly in the USA.
But the USA is our country, and we need to guard against those far lefties, enamored of all things European, who would seek impose these things upon us.
Okay for them; just plain silly in the USA.
Scouting without knives? What next, they take out the archery and rifle parts too? Also fire starting?
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Omar B
Senior Master
All that's left is a bunch of dudes in the woods dressed silly.
Sheesh. It's lunacy.
bekkilyn
Yellow Belt
Good grief! I was using a pocketknife since I was practically a baby. I remember my dad giving me one and teaching me how to use it well before I joined the Brownie scouts. And of course I still had one as a Girl Scout when I grew out of the Brownies.
I can't believe that little British kids would be using these pocketknives against each other as weapons. Come on!
I can't believe that little British kids would be using these pocketknives against each other as weapons. Come on!
Well, the criminals win another round.
We take knife safety very seriously and give the kids extensive training. I don't ever recall hearing of a boy scout using his knife to harm another person or slashing a little old lady while helping her cross the street.
And the Brits call the French sissy's?
We take knife safety very seriously and give the kids extensive training. I don't ever recall hearing of a boy scout using his knife to harm another person or slashing a little old lady while helping her cross the street.
And the Brits call the French sissy's?
Will they be requiring mommy to stick around and wipe their runny noses and fetch them their tea in the morning too?
Well, lets remember that its in the US that some moron interpreted the "no weapons policy" at schools to include the armaments of action figures.
As a scout that probably managed to own (and lose) enough knives over the course of my scouting career to equip at least a patrol and possibly a smallish troop, I'm pretty unimpressed with whatever logic went into this decision. I'm pretty sure Lord Baden-Powell would be turning over in his grave. The totin' chip gave training on both the use of knives and tools, but also on how and when to use them.
As a scout that probably managed to own (and lose) enough knives over the course of my scouting career to equip at least a patrol and possibly a smallish troop, I'm pretty unimpressed with whatever logic went into this decision. I'm pretty sure Lord Baden-Powell would be turning over in his grave. The totin' chip gave training on both the use of knives and tools, but also on how and when to use them.
Sad.
I was in scouting for 15 years. We were not allowed a knife of any kind in cubs, once you got to Scouts you could have a pocket knife. If you wanted a sheath knife, you had to pass a safety test. The first time you screwed up, the knife was gone for x period of time, if you screwed up again, you were not allowed to have a knife at all.
Stupid questions, how are they going to cook and eat their dinners without knives? How are they going to chop wood for a fire? Because if they take away a pocket knife, surely they should take away an axe and a hatchet. Both one Hell of a lot more dangerous then a pen knife.
This must get back to the UK banning people from carrying knives. Iaido practitioners in the UK are allowed to have swords. In a similar vein, the scouts should be exempt and allowed to have their knives.
It's only ADVICE, not a law. Scouts here..they dropped the Boy bit years ago, will still take them to camp scout leaders have said. they always were pretty regulated. Scouts here don't do archery or anything to do with guns....guns the army, navy and RAF cadets do.
it's not the law guys, it's actually what has been done for ages. Okay have you finished ripping us to pieces now?
Sadly it sounds like your version of scouting is missing the heart of the whole idea. That, is what I'm ripping.
I learned proper knife handling in Scouts. Learned to handle a rifle, learned to shoot a bow, learned to camp and make small traps, and 'create' water if lost in the woods, and use a compass. Learned to make a leantoo, and pitch a tent, and start a fire with flint n steel, and make it a safe fire that doesn't burn the woods down. Learned to whittle too, and sharpen a blade, and that one should not go spear fishing in a in ground pool and that one shouldn't get caught with the camp rangers daughter. (We won't get into those last two, k?)
So many of those activities involved having a knife. It was a big deal to -earn- the right to carry one.
So there's the source of my 'ripping'. I'd say the same thing if I heard the US branch was doing the same, except I'd be more blunt in my comments.
I learned proper knife handling in Scouts. Learned to handle a rifle, learned to shoot a bow, learned to camp and make small traps, and 'create' water if lost in the woods, and use a compass. Learned to make a leantoo, and pitch a tent, and start a fire with flint n steel, and make it a safe fire that doesn't burn the woods down. Learned to whittle too, and sharpen a blade, and that one should not go spear fishing in a in ground pool and that one shouldn't get caught with the camp rangers daughter. (We won't get into those last two, k?)
So many of those activities involved having a knife. It was a big deal to -earn- the right to carry one.
So there's the source of my 'ripping'. I'd say the same thing if I heard the US branch was doing the same, except I'd be more blunt in my comments.
It doesn't sound like it has been done for ages, given that there is controversy within the scouts themselves about what appears to be a new regulation, and that there is several quotes about the change, it doesn't sound like what was traditionally done either.
I don't know how the scouting tradition works in the UK, but here is the US it has a heavy heavy outdoor influence. I understand that the UK has a different relationship with firearms as the US, fine, but knives? The knife is the fundamental tool to outdoor survival, and a group called "scouts" is going to ban it? Have the UK scouts had a rash of intra-scout stabbings? Something that might actually give a reason for the ban? Or is this simply an organization that isn't willing to stand up and educate their charges and the general public about the real use of the knife? Education reduces fear, and it is simple fear that is driving these knife laws. Quite frankly it doesn't sound like the example of leadership that scouting is supposed to be representing. I'd be tearing into our scout associations equally badly if they suggested such a regulation.
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,555
- Reaction score
- 154
- Thread Starter
- #17
Ripping US?? to pieces? Sorry but that seem a little sensitive considering...
We are bemoaning the Scouts being deprived of training and experience with what is probably one of THE fundamental human tools for surviving in the outdoors. It's the young men in your country that we are voicing our concern over...if you folks dont see a problem with it thats your affair. Just our opinion.
lklawson
Grandmaster
No.
That's merely the traditional mechanism used for achieving the stated goals of Scouting which have always been citizenship and personal improvement.
U.S. Boy Scouts:--
Pledge:
On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
Moto:
Be Prepared
Law:
A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.
Slogan:
Do a good turn every day.
U.S. Cub Scout :--
Cub Scout Promise:
I, (say your name), promise
to DO MY BEST
To do my DUTY to GOD
And my Country
To HELP other people, and
To OBEY the LAW of the Pack
Law of the Pack: to DO MY BEST
To do my DUTY to GOD
And my Country
To HELP other people, and
To OBEY the LAW of the Pack
The Cub Scout follows Akela.
The Cub Scout helps the pack go.
The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.
The Cub Scout gives goodwill.
The Cub Scout helps the pack go.
The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.
The Cub Scout gives goodwill.
Cub Scout Motto:
DO YOUR BEST
Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Scouting. I was a Scout myself and have my son in Scouts. I think that this whole silliness about pocket knives in the U.K. is just a bit out there and think that both the U.S. and the U.K. need to bring back the Master at Arms Badge, but the whole idea that Scouting is about teaching boys how to camp just isn't right.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Last edited:
lklawson
Grandmaster
First, I don't agree with this at all. I think that they're wanting to move to Nerf World and are going to be rudely surprised.
Second, please understand where they are coming from. The last several years there have been several high profile knife attacks and the nation at large is in a tizzy over knives in the hands of young men. This is just a knee-jerk reaction. Unfortunately it's the sort of thing that becomes canonized.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Wow...
A pocket knive is the most basic tool depended upon by any scout. That is of course your version of "scouting" is sitting around a table doing Origami...
...wait...that might require cutting paper and scissors are sharp so I guess that's out too.
Perhaps they could knit sweaters? ...nope...wait...those knitting needles are too damn sharp...GEEZ! WTF are those poor lads gonna do?!?!?
A pocket knive is the most basic tool depended upon by any scout. That is of course your version of "scouting" is sitting around a table doing Origami...
...wait...that might require cutting paper and scissors are sharp so I guess that's out too.
Perhaps they could knit sweaters? ...nope...wait...those knitting needles are too damn sharp...GEEZ! WTF are those poor lads gonna do?!?!?
